18 ms·

Kind of interesting to think about his comment about the goal being to “create an international reserve currency that is disconnected from individual nations an

by zoba 13y ago

Kind of interesting to think about his comment about the goal being to “create an international reserve currency that is disconnected from individual nations and is able to remain stable in the long run.” Hmm...I wonder if there are any currencies which currently exist which fit the bill... And then think about pg's point #3 about why a government would have created Bitcoin: "because they felt their currency would never become the standard reserve currency, and they felt it was better that no one's be if theirs couldn't be" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5547423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5547423). It won't be proof that BTC came from China if China suggests using BTC as the reserve currency, but pg's point will be proven to me, at least.

maurycy 13y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights
oscargrouch 13y ago
No, the proof is the lack of trust of all world in the Wall street greedy and unstopable bankers.. and the mess they do in good economies all over the world(not only domestic) because they dont know when to stop. If US want to keep them its a choice they make, the problem its that other countries cant do nothing about that, even if this stupid behaviour is affecting everybody else and burning down the middle class all over the world
jadeddrag 13y ago
Another thing to consider is that most bitcoin mining and now the biggest exchange market are both in China.
andy112 13y ago
"...is able to remain stable in the long run." How sure are you that there won't be any significant breakthroughs in bitcoin-mining math/tech over the next 30 years? 100 years?
- zoba 13y ago
  I'm not sure, however, one of the things Bitcoin advocates tout is the limited inflation, which seems right in line with what he says is needed. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply
- allochthon 13y ago
  Also, bitcoin is deflationary by design. It will effectively run out at some point, if I understand the situation. I believe its proponents consider this a feature, but I suspect it will prove to be a liability.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    SO what? You can have tons of fractions of bitcoins, and that covers the needs of any micro-payment even if a single bitcoin becomes worth a million of dollars.
    - allochthon 13y ago
      The issue is subtle. It has to do with the need for a currency supply to expand to match overall increases in production in absolute terms. I don't understand the matter in any detail, but I trust economists in their general aversion to deflation.
      - ekianjo 13y ago
        There have been tons of economies which worked before on the Gold standard, which has been the model for the bitcoin "mining" model. I know nowadays you have lots of Keynesian economists who tell you that going in debt to the death and inflating the money supply is a good thing, but you have to look at how things worked before and why it made sense to have a limited supply currency.
        21echoes 13y ago
        the difference being that they kept discovering gold. bitcoin will effectively eventually run out.
devx 13y ago
That seems similar to that strategy that says you need to commoditize your competitor's products and cash cows (especially if such a move doesn't affect you in a big way). The dollar is a sort of "proprietary currency" owned by one "monopolistic" country now. The goal of a "competitor" would be to create an alternative that is very open and decentralized (anyone can use), to disrupt that country's power and control over the world through its currency. Sounds good to me.
MRSallee 13y ago
> Hmm...I wonder if there are any currencies which currently exist which fit the bill... I expected your next word to be "gold."
seiji 13y ago
If bitcoin becomes "a thing," then it'll be on a newly generated blockchain mined all to hell by a private party or government before being released to the public. Then you'll trade your cash for approved bitcoin (not using that name either) on that specific blockchain. It can even split out multiple ways (think: one currency per company instead of per country/region). Pay your AT&T bill with AT&T Fun Bucks which have an exchange rate against Apple Awesome Bucks which have an exchange rate with Euros which have an exchange rate with Safeway Safe Way to Pay Coins. The current bitcoin madness is just an experiment in how many ways you can say "THIS PAPER HAS VALUE," sign it, rip it into bits, then make people think each piece is a valuable part of the whole (which had imaginary value in the first place derived only out of scarcity—bitcoin isn't even shiny).
- grinnbearit 13y ago
  Network effect, why would you store any of your wealth in AT&T's blockchain over a globally distributed one? And even if a large number of people use AT&T's blockchain, it ceases to belong to them once they sell their coins.

by zoba 13y ago

maurycy 13y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

oscargrouch 13y ago

No, the proof is the lack of trust of all world in the Wall street greedy and unstopable bankers.. and the mess they do in good economies all over the world(not only domestic) because they dont know when to stop. If US want to keep them its a choice they make, the problem its that other countries cant do nothing about that, even if this stupid behaviour is affecting everybody else and burning down the middle class all over the world

jadeddrag 13y ago

Another thing to consider is that most bitcoin mining and now the biggest exchange market are both in China.

andy112 13y ago

"...is able to remain stable in the long run." How sure are you that there won't be any significant breakthroughs in bitcoin-mining math/tech over the next 30 years? 100 years?

zoba 13y ago
I'm not sure, however, one of the things Bitcoin advocates tout is the limited inflation, which seems right in line with what he says is needed. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply
allochthon 13y ago
Also, bitcoin is deflationary by design. It will effectively run out at some point, if I understand the situation. I believe its proponents consider this a feature, but I suspect it will prove to be a liability.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  SO what? You can have tons of fractions of bitcoins, and that covers the needs of any micro-payment even if a single bitcoin becomes worth a million of dollars.
  - allochthon 13y ago
    The issue is subtle. It has to do with the need for a currency supply to expand to match overall increases in production in absolute terms. I don't understand the matter in any detail, but I trust economists in their general aversion to deflation.
    - ekianjo 13y ago
      There have been tons of economies which worked before on the Gold standard, which has been the model for the bitcoin "mining" model. I know nowadays you have lots of Keynesian economists who tell you that going in debt to the death and inflating the money supply is a good thing, but you have to look at how things worked before and why it made sense to have a limited supply currency.
      - 21echoes 13y ago
        the difference being that they kept discovering gold. bitcoin will effectively eventually run out.

devx 13y ago

That seems similar to that strategy that says you need to commoditize your competitor's products and cash cows (especially if such a move doesn't affect you in a big way). The dollar is a sort of "proprietary currency" owned by one "monopolistic" country now. The goal of a "competitor" would be to create an alternative that is very open and decentralized (anyone can use), to disrupt that country's power and control over the world through its currency. Sounds good to me.

MRSallee 13y ago

> Hmm...I wonder if there are any currencies which currently exist which fit the bill... I expected your next word to be "gold."

seiji 13y ago

If bitcoin becomes "a thing," then it'll be on a newly generated blockchain mined all to hell by a private party or government before being released to the public. Then you'll trade your cash for approved bitcoin (not using that name either) on that specific blockchain. It can even split out multiple ways (think: one currency per company instead of per country/region). Pay your AT&T bill with AT&T Fun Bucks which have an exchange rate against Apple Awesome Bucks which have an exchange rate with Euros which have an exchange rate with Safeway Safe Way to Pay Coins. The current bitcoin madness is just an experiment in how many ways you can say "THIS PAPER HAS VALUE," sign it, rip it into bits, then make people think each piece is a valuable part of the whole (which had imaginary value in the first place derived only out of scarcity—bitcoin isn't even shiny).

grinnbearit 13y ago
Network effect, why would you store any of your wealth in AT&T's blockchain over a globally distributed one? And even if a large number of people use AT&T's blockchain, it ceases to belong to them once they sell their coins.