5 ms·

Hey, so... this is a sorta good time to ask. I assume this website's visualization was meant to spark some discussion. Do people on HN support/condemn the BART

by smtddr 13y ago

Hey, so... this is a sorta good time to ask. I assume this website's visualization was meant to spark some discussion. Do people on HN support/condemn the BART strike(s)? I've always been under the impression that the huge salaries being reported were some how an exaggeration. Because of this, I support the BART strike(s)... but perhaps my impression is wrong. Also, the strike doesn't impact me nearly as much as some other people. git pull/commit/push works just as good at home as in the office; thus I avoid dealing with the insane traffic from EastBay to San Francisco that is made even more insane by BART shutting down. At the same time, I don't think anyone wants disgruntled BART employees doing anything dangerous so paying them to have a "comfortable" life is also a good idea. Basically, I want to know if BART employees are being overpaid for what they do. This is probably more of an opinion thing than any kind of fact one way or another. I don't wanna go into some flamewar or anything....

sadadar 13y ago
I think the graphic is also fairly misleading starting with total comp instead of base salary or cash take home. I know when talking about my salary or how much I make things like value of my medical insurance is rarely something that comes up.
- smtddr 13y ago
  Yes!!! That's something I really think is going on. I really want to know the base-salary; not the potential health-care, plus 401k, plus something-else, that makes it all look huge.
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    Then toggle the drop-down to Salary + OT + Misc.
    - smtddr 13y ago
      thanks for the tip. Looks _much_ more reasonable now; still a bit higher than what I would have guessed. I kinda think this website should default to base-pay. In my mind, when someone tells me their salary I assume they're talking base-pay. If I wanted other info, I'd specifically ask for it. But that's just me.
- wavesounds 13y ago
  A lot of people I know have jobs that don't have medical or 401k's so its almost always brought up when discussing salaries around my neck of the woods.
- deeths 13y ago
  They have the other stats, but in the drop-down, but consider that this is a situation where in some cases salaries+overtime are 2.5x the base salary. Only a small number of workers are skewed that high, but the overtime is significant for a large percent of workers. They should have excluded other benefits by default, but I think you need to include the overtime to get a real picture.
wavesounds 13y ago
I personally think hiring more BART employees and expanding the network (creating construction jobs) would be better then the current BART employees making more money (except for maybe those at the very bottom). I also think they lost a lot of public support by striking. I think canvasing the platforms to appeal to the public while continuing operations would have been a better tactic.
- smtddr 13y ago
  Never thought of this, I like. I wonder if they're allowed to do that.
vinhboy 13y ago
I hope someone does the math and figure out whether paying money for OT work is more cost effective than just hiring more people. I personally think OT should be paid in comp time, not cash.
samstave 13y ago
Here is my perspective as a daily BART rider where 99% of the time I also have a bike, as well as often travelling with small kids/strollers (Forgive my BART Rage): If you have ever taken a BART elevator; every single BART employee should be fired, here is why: BART elevators, in 100% of my experience over the years has been a cesspool covered in urine and who knows what. EVERY time I take the elevator - I hit the emergency help button and complain about the stench, the state of the service. Every station operator has had the exact same response: "It's not my job" -- to which I tell them "Then tell someone whose job it is!" --- I am enraged that I have to pay for such a horrible rider experience, that I have to subject my small children to the horrific conditions of the BART elevators, their filthy cloth seats and their terrible customer service. I would be happy to have these people make a great salary if they could keep the basics of a clean, safe, efficient service going. As it stands now - I have no sympathy for anything they are doing due to the conditions of the service. I now exclusively take my bike up the escalator. The station operators try to tell me to take the elevator, and I say I refuse to take it until they clean them.
- zorpner 13y ago
  > I hit the emergency help button and complain about the stench, the state of the service. Please stop wasting everyone's time with your abuse of the emergency help button. Your problem is not an emergency. Additionally, you do not "have to pay" for the experience, you choose to do so.
  - samstave 13y ago
    The last time I used the piss-laden elevator with my children there was a homeless person convulsing on the platform of embarcaderro station. You have no clue what you're talking about - Bart is broken and their staff are near useless. I'm not wasting time and your a pretentious jerk for trying to tell me "I don't have to pay for their service"
    - throwaway86 13y ago
      Actually, you're the pretentious one here, using a device specifically labeled for emergencies to complain at someone every day about the cleanliness of the elevator. They're telling you it's not their job because you're ringing the fucking police, not custodial staff. You are diverting police resources away from, you know, responding to rapes and stabbings because you're a precious snowflake that can't handle a bit of piss on his way to work (undoubtedly in a city that also smells like piss). I'm surprised you haven't been arrested or shot yet, particularly since you are arrogant enough to believe that the rules do not apply to you. Take your bike in the elevator and suck it up. I bet you sneak on with your bike during rush hour, as well. Those of us that ride BART daily are smart enough to understand that BART has culturally drifted into a transportation service that is inappropriate for children. Particularly during rush hour, BART is an extremely unsafe place for children, and the reason you are disgusted by bringing your children onto BART is because you are taking an unnecessary risk by doing so. You are correct that it shouldn't be this way, but you are a terrible human being for abusing BART employees for the situation in the manner that you do. We get it. BART is disgusting in some places. You know what? It still beats the hell out of traffic for me every day that I rode it, and I don't walk around making my problems everyone else's problems because I expect perfection out of everything I do. It's a public transportation service, not your personal train. Hop off your horse, get in line with the rest of us and shut up, or go on Craigslist and buy a car, for crying out loud. You're a technologist. You can afford one. God, I hated people like you when I commuted daily on BART. People like you are too self-absorbed to realize that they make everybody else's commute suck by broadcasting and/or protesting how much the commute sucks. If I had a dollar for every time someone tried to sneak a bike on during rush hour and then had a standoff with the train operator, making the rest of us miss our transfers, I could buy a car. The only person broken in this situation is you. You wouldn't last a second in New York. I'd think twice about letting these comments stand attached to your name, because they make you look really bad. Like, I hope I never interview you bad.
discardorama 13y ago
> Basically, I want to know if BART employees are being overpaid for what they do. Correction: this BART strike (threat...) is from the "train operators" union. Consider the fact that BART trains are (almost) fully automated. The "operator" does nothing more than monitor things. If there is an emergency evacuation, s/he would help the passengers get out of the tunnel or whereever they are. Now, given this: why should an operator make $100K? Take a look around: how many other jobs pay this much with so little qualifications? A starting teach in SF makes $54K, after a Masters degree and certifications. A BART operator needs a few weeks of classes and that's about it. You can train a person in a few days to run BART trains: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=9255291 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=9255291

by smtddr 13y ago

sadadar 13y ago

I think the graphic is also fairly misleading starting with total comp instead of base salary or cash take home. I know when talking about my salary or how much I make things like value of my medical insurance is rarely something that comes up.

smtddr 13y ago
Yes!!! That's something I really think is going on. I really want to know the base-salary; not the potential health-care, plus 401k, plus something-else, that makes it all look huge.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Then toggle the drop-down to Salary + OT + Misc.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    thanks for the tip. Looks _much_ more reasonable now; still a bit higher than what I would have guessed. I kinda think this website should default to base-pay. In my mind, when someone tells me their salary I assume they're talking base-pay. If I wanted other info, I'd specifically ask for it. But that's just me.
wavesounds 13y ago
A lot of people I know have jobs that don't have medical or 401k's so its almost always brought up when discussing salaries around my neck of the woods.
deeths 13y ago
They have the other stats, but in the drop-down, but consider that this is a situation where in some cases salaries+overtime are 2.5x the base salary. Only a small number of workers are skewed that high, but the overtime is significant for a large percent of workers. They should have excluded other benefits by default, but I think you need to include the overtime to get a real picture.

wavesounds 13y ago

I personally think hiring more BART employees and expanding the network (creating construction jobs) would be better then the current BART employees making more money (except for maybe those at the very bottom). I also think they lost a lot of public support by striking. I think canvasing the platforms to appeal to the public while continuing operations would have been a better tactic.

smtddr 13y ago
Never thought of this, I like. I wonder if they're allowed to do that.

vinhboy 13y ago

I hope someone does the math and figure out whether paying money for OT work is more cost effective than just hiring more people. I personally think OT should be paid in comp time, not cash.

samstave 13y ago

Here is my perspective as a daily BART rider where 99% of the time I also have a bike, as well as often travelling with small kids/strollers (Forgive my BART Rage): If you have ever taken a BART elevator; every single BART employee should be fired, here is why: BART elevators, in 100% of my experience over the years has been a cesspool covered in urine and who knows what. EVERY time I take the elevator - I hit the emergency help button and complain about the stench, the state of the service. Every station operator has had the exact same response: "It's not my job" -- to which I tell them "Then tell someone whose job it is!" --- I am enraged that I have to pay for such a horrible rider experience, that I have to subject my small children to the horrific conditions of the BART elevators, their filthy cloth seats and their terrible customer service. I would be happy to have these people make a great salary if they could keep the basics of a clean, safe, efficient service going. As it stands now - I have no sympathy for anything they are doing due to the conditions of the service. I now exclusively take my bike up the escalator. The station operators try to tell me to take the elevator, and I say I refuse to take it until they clean them.

zorpner 13y ago
> I hit the emergency help button and complain about the stench, the state of the service. Please stop wasting everyone's time with your abuse of the emergency help button. Your problem is not an emergency. Additionally, you do not "have to pay" for the experience, you choose to do so.
- samstave 13y ago
  The last time I used the piss-laden elevator with my children there was a homeless person convulsing on the platform of embarcaderro station. You have no clue what you're talking about - Bart is broken and their staff are near useless. I'm not wasting time and your a pretentious jerk for trying to tell me "I don't have to pay for their service"
  - throwaway86 13y ago
    Actually, you're the pretentious one here, using a device specifically labeled for emergencies to complain at someone every day about the cleanliness of the elevator. They're telling you it's not their job because you're ringing the fucking police, not custodial staff. You are diverting police resources away from, you know, responding to rapes and stabbings because you're a precious snowflake that can't handle a bit of piss on his way to work (undoubtedly in a city that also smells like piss). I'm surprised you haven't been arrested or shot yet, particularly since you are arrogant enough to believe that the rules do not apply to you. Take your bike in the elevator and suck it up. I bet you sneak on with your bike during rush hour, as well. Those of us that ride BART daily are smart enough to understand that BART has culturally drifted into a transportation service that is inappropriate for children. Particularly during rush hour, BART is an extremely unsafe place for children, and the reason you are disgusted by bringing your children onto BART is because you are taking an unnecessary risk by doing so. You are correct that it shouldn't be this way, but you are a terrible human being for abusing BART employees for the situation in the manner that you do. We get it. BART is disgusting in some places. You know what? It still beats the hell out of traffic for me every day that I rode it, and I don't walk around making my problems everyone else's problems because I expect perfection out of everything I do. It's a public transportation service, not your personal train. Hop off your horse, get in line with the rest of us and shut up, or go on Craigslist and buy a car, for crying out loud. You're a technologist. You can afford one. God, I hated people like you when I commuted daily on BART. People like you are too self-absorbed to realize that they make everybody else's commute suck by broadcasting and/or protesting how much the commute sucks. If I had a dollar for every time someone tried to sneak a bike on during rush hour and then had a standoff with the train operator, making the rest of us miss our transfers, I could buy a car. The only person broken in this situation is you. You wouldn't last a second in New York. I'd think twice about letting these comments stand attached to your name, because they make you look really bad. Like, I hope I never interview you bad.

discardorama 13y ago

> Basically, I want to know if BART employees are being overpaid for what they do. Correction: this BART strike (threat...) is from the "train operators" union. Consider the fact that BART trains are (almost) fully automated. The "operator" does nothing more than monitor things. If there is an emergency evacuation, s/he would help the passengers get out of the tunnel or whereever they are. Now, given this: why should an operator make $100K? Take a look around: how many other jobs pay this much with so little qualifications? A starting teach in SF makes $54K, after a Masters degree and certifications. A BART operator needs a few weeks of classes and that's about it. You can train a person in a few days to run BART trains: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=9255291 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=9255291