6 ms·

I've always wondered why more people don't live in Oakland or Berkeley, which are both a relatively short commute to downtown SF. The housing prices are signifi

by ajiang 13y ago

I've always wondered why more people don't live in Oakland or Berkeley, which are both a relatively short commute to downtown SF. The housing prices are significantly cheaper, and especially in Berkeley, there seems to be a strong tech community. Without going into all of my guesses as to why this hasn't happened in droves, I think one of the larger reasons is the access to cheap transportation back to those areas at night. BART stops too early, so for the younger crowd that likes to stay out, it's too expensive to constantly take a $40-60 ride out of SF. Without the advent of additionally public transportation, would it be economically viable to provide a paid shuttle service to and from SF / Berkeley / Oakland?

nicholas73 13y ago
I've never considered Easy Bay because of its much higher crime rate. There is a reason it's cheaper. Maybe things are different now, but I wouldn't know, because I've never considered it.
- rgbrgb 13y ago
  That's some very poor circular logic. You've never considered it because of the crime rate that you don't know because you've never considered it.
  - nicholas73 13y ago
    It was high enough to demotivate me from checking again.
- rhubarbquid 13y ago
  You say that like San Francisco is crime free while the whole Easy Bay has a high crime rate...
  - DanBlake 13y ago
    Uh, yeah. SF may have crime but its nowhere near the danger level of oakland. IIRC, SF isnt even on the "top 100 most dangerous cities" list, but oakland usually is in the top 5. So, yes- Big difference. 10x higher chance to get murdered in oakland than SF.
    - jerhinesmith 13y ago
      Right, but Oakland != "The East Bay".
      - ryandrake 13y ago
        Yea, there's always Hayward if you want safety...
        jff 13y ago
        The Tri-Valley is quite nice, but don't tell or everyone will want to move here.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      How is that danger distributed through Oakland? Baltimore and Philly are both typically in the top 25 of those lists, but from personal experience I can say the actual danger presented to any particular person depends very heavily on which neighborhood in the city you choose (compared to Seattle, where as far as I can tell there are no genuinely dangerous neighborhoods). I have even heard similar claims about Detroit from Detroit natives, though I must admit I am a little skeptical in that case. I guess my point is that a city having a high crime rate does not necessarily put it off limits; it may just mean that particular neighborhoods are off limits.
      - iskander 13y ago
        Once you get used to the nuances of a place then you start to internalize its dangers in this way. I heard and experienced the same logic about threats while in the West Bank. The danger is really overblown, as long you don't drive that road over there...
- tsotha 13y ago
  Where I live in the East Bay crime is lower than SF. It all depends on where you go.
fourstar 13y ago
40-60 ride out of SF? AC Transit Lines 800–899 are All Nighter lines, operating from 1 a.m. – 5 a.m. daily. Some may operate somewhat earlier or later (especially on weekends).
- Apocryphon 13y ago
  That sounds great. How come they don't service the Peninsula to South Bay? :(
  - mjn 13y ago
    They do, but it's hilariously slow. It's so slow that it's often actually faster to wait for the next morning's Caltrain. SamTrans runs all-night bus service from SF to Palo Alto, route 397. Once per hour, and the ride takes 2 hours, 15 minutes (!). From there you can switch to the all-night VTA route 22, which goes Palo Alto to San Jose. That's also approximately once per hour, and the trip takes about 1 hour, 15 minutes. With the connection time, you can make the overall trip in about 4 hours.
mikeryan 13y ago
Traditionally its because an East Bay to Silicon Valley commute hasn't really worked. Not until Twitter/Zynga/Square/AirBnb started the large SF startup presence has the East Bay really started to benefit from the tech scene. (note I bought in Berkeley a few years ago, and looking to move to Oakland)
Apocryphon 13y ago
"Would it be economically viable to provide a paid shuttle service to and from SF / Berkeley / Oakland?" Perhaps Uber should move from providing premium taxi-like service, and instead offer a 24-hour bus-like service? For partygoers on the weekend, at least?
- ajiang 13y ago
  I think you could definitely be selective in the routes and hours you would operate - I like the idea of charging $20 per person and transporting 50-100 people at a time from major downtown centers (e.g. Civic Center to Downtown Berkeley)
- wh-uws 13y ago
  shameless plug this is literally the startup I am working on I describe it here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6428246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6428246 You can signup for the interest list here http://driveless.co/ http://driveless.co/ I'll be updating and launching new things this week.
dougmccune 13y ago
This does happen in droves, but it's more when kids reach elementary school age. SF is a pretty difficult city when it comes to ensuring your kid gets into a decent elementary school, so that's one point at which many people leave. Not to mention that you don't have to go far in any direction (north to Marin, east to Berkeley, south to Palo Alto) and you have fantastic public schools.

by ajiang 13y ago

nicholas73 13y ago

I've never considered Easy Bay because of its much higher crime rate. There is a reason it's cheaper. Maybe things are different now, but I wouldn't know, because I've never considered it.

rgbrgb 13y ago
That's some very poor circular logic. You've never considered it because of the crime rate that you don't know because you've never considered it.
- nicholas73 13y ago
  It was high enough to demotivate me from checking again.
rhubarbquid 13y ago
You say that like San Francisco is crime free while the whole Easy Bay has a high crime rate...
- DanBlake 13y ago
  Uh, yeah. SF may have crime but its nowhere near the danger level of oakland. IIRC, SF isnt even on the "top 100 most dangerous cities" list, but oakland usually is in the top 5. So, yes- Big difference. 10x higher chance to get murdered in oakland than SF.
  - jerhinesmith 13y ago
    Right, but Oakland != "The East Bay".
    - ryandrake 13y ago
      Yea, there's always Hayward if you want safety...
      - jff 13y ago
        The Tri-Valley is quite nice, but don't tell or everyone will want to move here.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    How is that danger distributed through Oakland? Baltimore and Philly are both typically in the top 25 of those lists, but from personal experience I can say the actual danger presented to any particular person depends very heavily on which neighborhood in the city you choose (compared to Seattle, where as far as I can tell there are no genuinely dangerous neighborhoods). I have even heard similar claims about Detroit from Detroit natives, though I must admit I am a little skeptical in that case. I guess my point is that a city having a high crime rate does not necessarily put it off limits; it may just mean that particular neighborhoods are off limits.
    - iskander 13y ago
      Once you get used to the nuances of a place then you start to internalize its dangers in this way. I heard and experienced the same logic about threats while in the West Bank. The danger is really overblown, as long you don't drive that road over there...
tsotha 13y ago
Where I live in the East Bay crime is lower than SF. It all depends on where you go.

fourstar 13y ago

40-60 ride out of SF? AC Transit Lines 800–899 are All Nighter lines, operating from 1 a.m. – 5 a.m. daily. Some may operate somewhat earlier or later (especially on weekends).

Apocryphon 13y ago
That sounds great. How come they don't service the Peninsula to South Bay? :(
- mjn 13y ago
  They do, but it's hilariously slow. It's so slow that it's often actually faster to wait for the next morning's Caltrain. SamTrans runs all-night bus service from SF to Palo Alto, route 397. Once per hour, and the ride takes 2 hours, 15 minutes (!). From there you can switch to the all-night VTA route 22, which goes Palo Alto to San Jose. That's also approximately once per hour, and the trip takes about 1 hour, 15 minutes. With the connection time, you can make the overall trip in about 4 hours.

mikeryan 13y ago

Traditionally its because an East Bay to Silicon Valley commute hasn't really worked. Not until Twitter/Zynga/Square/AirBnb started the large SF startup presence has the East Bay really started to benefit from the tech scene. (note I bought in Berkeley a few years ago, and looking to move to Oakland)

Apocryphon 13y ago

"Would it be economically viable to provide a paid shuttle service to and from SF / Berkeley / Oakland?" Perhaps Uber should move from providing premium taxi-like service, and instead offer a 24-hour bus-like service? For partygoers on the weekend, at least?

ajiang 13y ago
I think you could definitely be selective in the routes and hours you would operate - I like the idea of charging $20 per person and transporting 50-100 people at a time from major downtown centers (e.g. Civic Center to Downtown Berkeley)
wh-uws 13y ago
shameless plug this is literally the startup I am working on I describe it here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6428246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6428246 You can signup for the interest list here http://driveless.co/ http://driveless.co/ I'll be updating and launching new things this week.

dougmccune 13y ago

This does happen in droves, but it's more when kids reach elementary school age. SF is a pretty difficult city when it comes to ensuring your kid gets into a decent elementary school, so that's one point at which many people leave. Not to mention that you don't have to go far in any direction (north to Marin, east to Berkeley, south to Palo Alto) and you have fantastic public schools.