8 ms·

Interesting story, but glosses over lots of the details of how they got acceptance in US and Europe. Did they teach the gringos how to cook it? Is it ultimatel

Interesting story, but glosses over lots of the details of how they got acceptance in US and Europe. Did they teach the gringos how to cook it? Is it ultimately a technology triumph? As without the debittering (dehusking?) technology the crops would have been unsellable.

VLM 13y ago
Traditional cooking method takes lots of time and rinse water to remove the bitter coating. If as a tribal villager you've been cooking your porridge for decades you get pretty good at it, but it tastes pretty awful as a gringo if you screw it up and its all bitter. So yeah, pretty much unsellable in the USA without the debitter machine treatment. I have purchased and tried small amounts of locally produced quinoa at farmers market and to say the preparation is an unholy PITA of rinsing and soaking would be an understatement. I am mostly a paleo diet type guy but I try lots of foods and its not bad, properly prepared. The primary problem seems to be taste. Its not that much different than rice and is cooked roughly the same way and spiced roughly the same way. It is an excellent protein source for a starving village farmer if its "free" or cheap, but at now $10/pound I'm better off with steak as a protein source in my diet, or fish, or pretty much anything else.
- inthewind 13y ago
  Hilarious to read people writing that they'd be better off with steak as a protein source, it might be better for you - but not the planet. We'd be better of as a species by eating the grains directly and bypassing the animals. Silly food subsidies (at least in the UK), subsidise meat and dairy over grain and veg. For example it's cheaper to buy sausages than it is to buy aubergines. Pretty senseless!
  - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
    Grain farming is less sustainable than pastured animal raising. You're welcome to a discussion about supportable human populations, but the idea that grain and legume farming is more ecologically sustainable is flat out wrong.
    - Nelkins 13y ago
      That's interesting, I've actually never heard this before. Do you have a source?
      - VLM 13y ago
        Cost of industrial non-organic grain production, herbicides, insecticides and the whole lot vs hey cow, here's some natural prairie, now go eat it, which doesn't cost as much environmentally.
        inthewind 13y ago
        This cows on natural prairies idea is pretty much bullshit. Unless you are talking about some maasai tribes that bleed out their cattle for protein shakes. Cattle farming is huge agricultural business. And for most people their meat is farmed (with additional inputs). Europeans decimated the Americas for their corn fed fatty marbled cattle. The rainforests are being cleared for soy, as with most arable crops a high percentage are grown as animal feeds. So there isn't any escape. Eating a cow has collateral damage too. Take a fraction of those arable crops, don't bother meat farming and move over to better farming methods that are more in tune with nature. It's a balancing act. If you haven't any ethical qualms about meat eating then you can still farm those fringe places pastorally - reindeer, goats, kangaroos etc.
        a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
        I have a freezer full of pastured beef & game venison and that's pretty much all I eat in terms of protein. I have piles of grass fed butter in my fridge. What's bullshit about that?
        inthewind 13y ago
        I think though you're an exception. What a luxury. It sounds like you've weighed up the environmental pros and cons for your locale, which is more than most do. I still think there's better use for that land than raising cattle on it. I can't help but think that good meat is reserved for the luxury of a few, that includes well raised organic meats. It's only the wealthy people that I know that can afford such.
  - VLM 13y ago
    Couldn't disagree more strongly for economic reasons. Lets say I pay $4 for a pound of bratwurst. He cannot do more than $4 of environmental damage and still stay in business. Even if brats magically fell from the sky for free, he simply can't do worse than stack up $4 worth of lead and old car tires and set them on fire or whatever other environmental degradation you can imagine. The good organic farmers market meat costs more than $4/lb but less than $10 so the argument still holds. In fact I'm about to take delivery of a quarter-cow from a local organic farmer, got my high efficiency freezer all defrosted and emptied and ready to fill with delicious organic local grass fed beef. On the other hand, the guy who I just handed a $10 to for a pound of quinoa can stack of $10 worth of old car tires and set them on fire and dump $10 of antifreeze into the river or WTF. He can afford to "ruin the environment" to the tune of $9.99 and still stay in business, unlike the brat guy above who would go almost instantly out of business if he spent $9 trashing the environment for every $4 incoming. This is before I even get started on the supply side, where for the sake of argument lets say I have to kill one baby seals per $1 take home pay. That means to earn the $10 for quinoa regardless of how "pure" his quinoa growing operation is, ten baby seals died, whereas to earn the $4 for brats, regardless of how "pure" his pig sty is, a mere four baby seals had to die. I would argue that most people in the real world work at pretty ugly companies, ecologically speaking, so most of the enviro damage comes from earning the money rather than how its spent. Another example is I burn about a gallon of gas per day that I drive to work, so even if I do the ultimate green thing and finance planting a rainforest or something, I've still ecologically destroyed a gallon of gas before I even crack open my wallet. There are some interesting petroleum arguments also, in that a pound of "meat" from the organic farmer five miles away at the farmers market burned a heck of a lot less diesel / bunker fuel than a pound of quinoa from another hemisphere. Although a small timer grew and sold a little native quinoa at the market which I bought, reality is that the vast majority of it is imported from another hemisphere at substantial cost. I can buy locally grown organic beef, pork, and chicken. Most people can't buy locally grown quinoa. Some people can, and American's are literally starving them out of the local quinoa market, which is too bad. Don't get me wrong, I am a hard core environmentalist at heart for example I think people who dump industrial waste into rivers I hike by should be capital punished by being forced to drink what they dumped till they croak, its only fair since the poor bastards living downstream are already literally drinking it... But feel good irrational non-analyzed environmentalism does more bad for the earth than good, and it turns out the reality is that everyone's better off if I eat a quarter pound steak rather than a quarter pound of quinoa, under existing conditions.
bane 13y ago
You can probably blame the gluten-free madness for some of it. Most of the people I know who are big fans became fans at around the same time they suddenly "developed" gluten problems coincidentally at around the same time a couple years ago when the fad started taking off. It's listed frequently in gluten-free literature as an alternative to gluten rich wheat products. All that being said, it tastes fine and isn't overly burdensome to cook. It's a nice change of pace from other staples as part of a well varied diet.
- pavedwalden 13y ago
  I understand that there's an unseemly faddish element to the gluten free thing, but I think it's unfair to say that your acquaintances suddenly "developed" gluten problems. More likely, they just hadn't been announcing their chronic bowel problems to you all along and suddenly found that their symptoms improved when they tried out this new diet they'd heard of.
  - bane 13y ago
    I don't just think it's faddish, I think it's outright disrespectful of people who have actual gluten problems.
    - VLM 13y ago
      My son has medically diagnosed gluten sensitivity or whatever Celiac is officially called, and he loves the recent fad because there's tons of junk food he can buy at the store, at least as long as the fad lasts. He was diagnosed many years ago and back then, there were not many artificial GF products out there to buy... It would be interesting to compare results over time, my son was diagnosed quite awhile ago and it was cheap and easy to go cold turkey WRT grains, whereas I think paradoxically it might be harder today for people recently (self?) diagnosed because there so many "here's a GF sorta-cookie-like object for a mere $6.95" products in stores. Or the GF pancake mix that tastes good even to me, but is about $10/box. Its a lot cheaper, and arguably easier, to eat naturally GF products than artificially GF products, what I'm getting at is its a lot cheaper and easier to make a GF omelet for breakfast than to go thru what you need to do to make (or buy) GF french toast. Its easier and cheaper to make your own taco meat seasoning than to try and buy a packaged envelope that doesn't use wheat flour as a thickener, for example.
brianbreslin 13y ago
I think points are not all created equal. my 4 point comment caused 34 comment replies....

VLM 13y ago

Traditional cooking method takes lots of time and rinse water to remove the bitter coating. If as a tribal villager you've been cooking your porridge for decades you get pretty good at it, but it tastes pretty awful as a gringo if you screw it up and its all bitter. So yeah, pretty much unsellable in the USA without the debitter machine treatment. I have purchased and tried small amounts of locally produced quinoa at farmers market and to say the preparation is an unholy PITA of rinsing and soaking would be an understatement. I am mostly a paleo diet type guy but I try lots of foods and its not bad, properly prepared. The primary problem seems to be taste. Its not that much different than rice and is cooked roughly the same way and spiced roughly the same way. It is an excellent protein source for a starving village farmer if its "free" or cheap, but at now $10/pound I'm better off with steak as a protein source in my diet, or fish, or pretty much anything else.

inthewind 13y ago
Hilarious to read people writing that they'd be better off with steak as a protein source, it might be better for you - but not the planet. We'd be better of as a species by eating the grains directly and bypassing the animals. Silly food subsidies (at least in the UK), subsidise meat and dairy over grain and veg. For example it's cheaper to buy sausages than it is to buy aubergines. Pretty senseless!
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  Grain farming is less sustainable than pastured animal raising. You're welcome to a discussion about supportable human populations, but the idea that grain and legume farming is more ecologically sustainable is flat out wrong.
  - Nelkins 13y ago
    That's interesting, I've actually never heard this before. Do you have a source?
    - VLM 13y ago
      Cost of industrial non-organic grain production, herbicides, insecticides and the whole lot vs hey cow, here's some natural prairie, now go eat it, which doesn't cost as much environmentally.
      - inthewind 13y ago
        This cows on natural prairies idea is pretty much bullshit. Unless you are talking about some maasai tribes that bleed out their cattle for protein shakes. Cattle farming is huge agricultural business. And for most people their meat is farmed (with additional inputs). Europeans decimated the Americas for their corn fed fatty marbled cattle. The rainforests are being cleared for soy, as with most arable crops a high percentage are grown as animal feeds. So there isn't any escape. Eating a cow has collateral damage too. Take a fraction of those arable crops, don't bother meat farming and move over to better farming methods that are more in tune with nature. It's a balancing act. If you haven't any ethical qualms about meat eating then you can still farm those fringe places pastorally - reindeer, goats, kangaroos etc.
        a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
        I have a freezer full of pastured beef & game venison and that's pretty much all I eat in terms of protein. I have piles of grass fed butter in my fridge. What's bullshit about that?
        inthewind 13y ago
        I think though you're an exception. What a luxury. It sounds like you've weighed up the environmental pros and cons for your locale, which is more than most do. I still think there's better use for that land than raising cattle on it. I can't help but think that good meat is reserved for the luxury of a few, that includes well raised organic meats. It's only the wealthy people that I know that can afford such.
- VLM 13y ago
  Couldn't disagree more strongly for economic reasons. Lets say I pay $4 for a pound of bratwurst. He cannot do more than $4 of environmental damage and still stay in business. Even if brats magically fell from the sky for free, he simply can't do worse than stack up $4 worth of lead and old car tires and set them on fire or whatever other environmental degradation you can imagine. The good organic farmers market meat costs more than $4/lb but less than $10 so the argument still holds. In fact I'm about to take delivery of a quarter-cow from a local organic farmer, got my high efficiency freezer all defrosted and emptied and ready to fill with delicious organic local grass fed beef. On the other hand, the guy who I just handed a $10 to for a pound of quinoa can stack of $10 worth of old car tires and set them on fire and dump $10 of antifreeze into the river or WTF. He can afford to "ruin the environment" to the tune of $9.99 and still stay in business, unlike the brat guy above who would go almost instantly out of business if he spent $9 trashing the environment for every $4 incoming. This is before I even get started on the supply side, where for the sake of argument lets say I have to kill one baby seals per $1 take home pay. That means to earn the $10 for quinoa regardless of how "pure" his quinoa growing operation is, ten baby seals died, whereas to earn the $4 for brats, regardless of how "pure" his pig sty is, a mere four baby seals had to die. I would argue that most people in the real world work at pretty ugly companies, ecologically speaking, so most of the enviro damage comes from earning the money rather than how its spent. Another example is I burn about a gallon of gas per day that I drive to work, so even if I do the ultimate green thing and finance planting a rainforest or something, I've still ecologically destroyed a gallon of gas before I even crack open my wallet. There are some interesting petroleum arguments also, in that a pound of "meat" from the organic farmer five miles away at the farmers market burned a heck of a lot less diesel / bunker fuel than a pound of quinoa from another hemisphere. Although a small timer grew and sold a little native quinoa at the market which I bought, reality is that the vast majority of it is imported from another hemisphere at substantial cost. I can buy locally grown organic beef, pork, and chicken. Most people can't buy locally grown quinoa. Some people can, and American's are literally starving them out of the local quinoa market, which is too bad. Don't get me wrong, I am a hard core environmentalist at heart for example I think people who dump industrial waste into rivers I hike by should be capital punished by being forced to drink what they dumped till they croak, its only fair since the poor bastards living downstream are already literally drinking it... But feel good irrational non-analyzed environmentalism does more bad for the earth than good, and it turns out the reality is that everyone's better off if I eat a quarter pound steak rather than a quarter pound of quinoa, under existing conditions.

bane 13y ago

You can probably blame the gluten-free madness for some of it. Most of the people I know who are big fans became fans at around the same time they suddenly "developed" gluten problems coincidentally at around the same time a couple years ago when the fad started taking off. It's listed frequently in gluten-free literature as an alternative to gluten rich wheat products. All that being said, it tastes fine and isn't overly burdensome to cook. It's a nice change of pace from other staples as part of a well varied diet.

pavedwalden 13y ago
I understand that there's an unseemly faddish element to the gluten free thing, but I think it's unfair to say that your acquaintances suddenly "developed" gluten problems. More likely, they just hadn't been announcing their chronic bowel problems to you all along and suddenly found that their symptoms improved when they tried out this new diet they'd heard of.
- bane 13y ago
  I don't just think it's faddish, I think it's outright disrespectful of people who have actual gluten problems.
  - VLM 13y ago
    My son has medically diagnosed gluten sensitivity or whatever Celiac is officially called, and he loves the recent fad because there's tons of junk food he can buy at the store, at least as long as the fad lasts. He was diagnosed many years ago and back then, there were not many artificial GF products out there to buy... It would be interesting to compare results over time, my son was diagnosed quite awhile ago and it was cheap and easy to go cold turkey WRT grains, whereas I think paradoxically it might be harder today for people recently (self?) diagnosed because there so many "here's a GF sorta-cookie-like object for a mere $6.95" products in stores. Or the GF pancake mix that tastes good even to me, but is about $10/box. Its a lot cheaper, and arguably easier, to eat naturally GF products than artificially GF products, what I'm getting at is its a lot cheaper and easier to make a GF omelet for breakfast than to go thru what you need to do to make (or buy) GF french toast. Its easier and cheaper to make your own taco meat seasoning than to try and buy a packaged envelope that doesn't use wheat flour as a thickener, for example.

brianbreslin 13y ago

I think points are not all created equal. my 4 point comment caused 34 comment replies....