8 ms·

Adblock Plus: the tiny plugin threatening the internet's business model

26 points by jonathansizz 13y ago

susi22 13y ago
There is a HUGE controversy about Adblock plus. One blogger uncovered some of their business methods. They have Mafia like structures and extort businesses. Unfortunately it's only in German and I have yet to find an English site report about it. Main article (very detailed): http://www.mobilegeeks.de/adblock-plus-undercover-einblicke-in-ein-mafioeses-werbenetzwerk/ http://www.mobilegeeks.de/adblock-plus-undercover-einblicke-... They've been trying to cover up their methods and simply lied about it. Stay away from Adblock Plus. Some shorter article: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Adblock-Plus-Weitere-Vorwuerfe-und-Widersprueche-1909535.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Adblock-Plus-Weitere-...
- dhimes 13y ago
  Is there an alternative?
  - jfb 13y ago
    To Adblock? I use a system level HTTP proxy (Glimmerblocker [1] on OS X, Privoxy elsewhere [2]) because I don't want to encounter ads in e.g. my RSS reader. To an advertising-based business model? Unclear. [1] http://glimmerblocker.org http://glimmerblocker.org [2] http://www.privoxy.org http://www.privoxy.org
  - frankblizzard 13y ago
    The problem / article is about ADBLOCK PLUS - not with the normal Adblock. Two different beasts.
  - BIair 13y ago
    MVP hosts file blocks ads on Windows machines by editing the hosts file. No 3rd party software needed. http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm
    - dhimes 13y ago
      Seems like it should work on other OSs too, actually. Thanks for the link.
  - andyn 13y ago
    I use "Adblock Edge" as an alternative. It's basically a fork of adblock plus but without the "acceptable ads" feature.
    - linker3000 13y ago
      I never appreciated the difference or history of the Adblock and Adblock Plus plugins. I'm currently removing ABP from all my desktops and laptops in favour of Adblock Edge. Thanks.
- phorese 13y ago
  Thanks, that first link is awesome! Well, at least if you can look past the boatload of sarcasm :/
- mratzloff 13y ago
  Use Adblock instead. Adblock Plus is another product entirely, unrelated despite the name trading on the popularity of Adblock.
  - nathan_long 13y ago
    Yes, they are separate, but the history of the names is complicated. See "why are the names so similar?" on https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus
- levesque 13y ago
  Alright, that's enough, I don't trust these guys to tell me which ads should be blocked and which shouldn't. Uninstalled.
Nursie 13y ago
I don't like the implied threat stuff going on here. I may look for a different ad blocking solution. But that article was pretty shrill. As far as I'm concerned, most online advertising is malware.
- tekmate 13y ago
  if you don't want to support eyeo there's a fork of ABP called adblock edge. works just as well, without the acceptable ads racket
cstross 13y ago
Frankly, I hate advertising -- ALL advertising, not just web advertising -- and want the advertising industry to die in a fire. I recognize this is a bit controversial, especially with Americans (who seem unable to conceive of content industries that can exist in the absence of advertising: the BBC and the entire book publishing industry apparently exist in a cognitive blind spot), but advertising is mostly oriented around selling us stuff we don't want or need, and as such it shares many characteristics with spam; it's insidious, intrusive, tries to steal your attention, and works by instilling uncertainty and self-doubt. Yes, 90% of the web would die without advertising -- but I think we'd be better off with just the 10% left over, because it'd be the best 10% (the stuff that has a viable business model that works without advertising).
- iambateman 13y ago
  I don't think you really hate advertising as much as you say. You get to use tons and tons of great sites without paying money, because the good people of ADVERT_CO paid for your attention. Advertising gives you something you want, so you pay attention to something you don't want. But unless you want to pay a subscription fee to every site you use, it's not a bad deal at all.
  - lazyjones 13y ago
    > But unless you want to pay a subscription fee to every site you use, it's not a bad deal at all. There are websites out there that do not rely on ads and do not require a paid subscription to be used (I built one, a CSE).
    - cstross 13y ago
      Yup. Me too. That's the principle I run on.
    - stingraycharles 13y ago
      How do you make money from your site?
degenerate 13y ago
I've been happily using Adblock Edge (a fork of ABP without the acceptable ads feature): https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/ https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/ I allow ads on sites I support and respect, and everyone else gets blocked. I'd rather do that myself than have ABP decide that for me. Unfortunately ABE is not available for Chrome (see https://bitbucket.org/adstomper/adblockedge/issue/23/adblock-edge-for-chrome https://bitbucket.org/adstomper/adblockedge/issue/23/adblock...), so I still use ABP on Chrome. Is there an alternative out there yet?
- nathan_long 13y ago
  Yes. AdBlock (https://getadblock.com https://getadblock.com) is actually the most popular extension on Chrome, more than Adblock Plus. It blocks solely based on your filter subscriptions and custom rules and is funded solely by usrs. https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus
- drcongo 13y ago
  On OS X there's GlimmerBlocker, which is hugely superior to AdBlock Pro or Edge. [1] http://glimmerblocker.org http://glimmerblocker.org
_Lemon_ 13y ago
As an alternative, I switched to Adblock Edge: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/
jacquesm 13y ago
Adblockers should just block ads, not be used to extort money once they reach a certain level of adoption.
iambateman 13y ago
Here's the problem...anything that can be done, will be done. And ads can be blocked online. It's just reality. Like digital music will be copied and secret government problems will be leaked and embarrassing pictures of politicians will surface online. It doesn't matter what you want to happen. It's just going to. So we, as people who profit from the web, need to think about structuring our businesses in such a way that the inevitable doesn't kill our work. (FWIW, Adblock's business model is apparently extortion, which makes me sick.)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
peterwwillis 13y ago
"The Internet's business model" The internet is a single business with one business model? Holy shit. It must work well, as I hear the internet's all the rage with the young folks. Should've invested sooner.
psn 13y ago
Hah. I recall antispam companies doing the same thing - once they got big enough, they demanded money from major mail exchanges. I'm sure companies paid out rather than risk long legal cases and poor PR.
gabemart 13y ago
> But sites are rarely paid “per click”. Doesn't google AdSense alone count for a non-trivial portion of internet advertising? Unless the rules are different for bigger partners, all AdSense revenue is per click.
nathan_long 13y ago
Please note: This article is about Adblock Plus. AdBlock is a completely separate extension with different developers, and is 100% user-supported. Details: https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus
bsullivan01 13y ago
Ads are fine, up to a point. If the page is almost all ads and not marked clearly as so, then F that company. But these AdBlock PLUS guys are extortionists. Google paid and their ads are "acceptable." all of the sudden. (Disclaimer: not a fan of Google at all) Google being the world's largest advertiser is leading the way in putting the entire business model at risk, ruining ads for everyone. They started with no ads, then a few ads on the side, then on top, then 2-5 on top and 12 on the sides, now ads everywhere and just a few results hidden by ads. Now the product search is 100% ads and I doubt that most people know (not everyone reads HN and Ars) I posted them before but this is a disgrace and it's not receiving the needed attention from the media: http://i.imgur.com/mhJhc5W.png http://i.imgur.com/mhJhc5W.png http://ho9od35yvs05ejqn.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Google-Adwords-HD-Monitor.jpg http://ho9od35yvs05ejqn.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/u...
SudoNick 13y ago
Given that the business model in question has come to revolve around highly targeted advertising achieved via extensive tracking and profiling of users, it certainly deserves to be threatened. Unfortunately, the AdblockPlus "acceptable ads" criteria don't address the privacy issues. So the ABP folks are actually promoting advertising standards and ads that are intrusive. To make matters worse, this "ad blocker" that supposedly "protects your online privacy" is purposely equipped with a material defect in the form of an enabled by default whitelist that allows many ads through including those that are harmful to your privacy. Those unsuspecting users who fail to learn of this and/or those who forget to opt-out can get burned.
MichaelMoser123 13y ago
I have written a short article on adds and 'peak advertising'. Might be of interest. http://mosermichael.github.io/cstuff/all/blogg/2013/10/14/post.1.html http://mosermichael.github.io/cstuff/all/blogg/2013/10/14/po...
Sagat 13y ago
Ads make for some interesting doublethink. One one hand, I hate the consumer oriented society that wastes resources on a ton of useless products; I despise the scummy advertisers who manipulate people into pursuing the wrong goals. On the other, I like having stuff and will happily buy things to put inside my home and on my person. I am totally dependent on the consumer ecosystem and I enjoy creature comforts. That said, when I truly need something I will make a targeted search for it. It's really rare to see ads that actually interest me. So I am generally extremely hostile to the ad business. I hate everything about them, because they symbolize the uncomfortable truths and compromises our society rests upon. They are everywhere and mostly do nothing but sap your mental energy.
nathan_long 13y ago
The advertising problem is very strange. There is content we do want which we could have by paying a small amount. But we're (by and large) unwilling. So we get ads. A tiny fraction of the ads are clicked, and a tiny fraction of the money spent on that product goes back to the content producer. And that's enough to fund them. We could avoid seeing 100 ads which end up giving 10 cents to the site if we'd just pay 10 cents each.[1] It would be nicer for us and simpler for the content producers. But we're not willing, apparently. It seems perverse to claim that we value good articles and shows if we force the creators to sell us boots in order to make a living. Oh, micropayments, when will we find a workable system for you? [1] Made-up numbers
jonathansizz 13y ago
Can anyone shed some light on the Hacker News story ranking algorithm? After 1 hour, this submission was in third place on the front page, then I checked again about 15 minutes later and it had dropped to 93rd place, on page 4! There are many other stories that are both older and have fewer points that are higher up the rankings. Judging by the number of comments, this link is obviously a story of interest to HN. Just curious what's going on..
- bsullivan01 13y ago
  Employes of a certain company that starts with G do this on stories harmful to their employer. I'd bet that's the reason.
  - jonathansizz 13y ago
    So the ranking isn't simply based on a combination of age and upvotes? I see.
    - bsullivan01 13y ago
      I think it also has to do with a rush new votes up or down. Sort of trending
maaarghk 13y ago
Thanks, due to this post I have switched from ABP on chrome to Adblock. Had no idea the ABP people were acting in this way, will try to spread the word.

26 points by jonathansizz 13y ago

There is a HUGE controversy about Adblock plus. One blogger uncovered some of their business methods. They have Mafia like structures and extort businesses. Unfortunately it's only in German and I have yet to find an English site report about it. Main article (very detailed): http://www.mobilegeeks.de/adblock-plus-undercover-einblicke-in-ein-mafioeses-werbenetzwerk/ http://www.mobilegeeks.de/adblock-plus-undercover-einblicke-... They've been trying to cover up their methods and simply lied about it. Stay away from Adblock Plus. Some shorter article: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Adblock-Plus-Weitere-Vorwuerfe-und-Widersprueche-1909535.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Adblock-Plus-Weitere-...

dhimes 13y ago
Is there an alternative?
- jfb 13y ago
  To Adblock? I use a system level HTTP proxy (Glimmerblocker [1] on OS X, Privoxy elsewhere [2]) because I don't want to encounter ads in e.g. my RSS reader. To an advertising-based business model? Unclear. [1] http://glimmerblocker.org http://glimmerblocker.org [2] http://www.privoxy.org http://www.privoxy.org
- frankblizzard 13y ago
  The problem / article is about ADBLOCK PLUS - not with the normal Adblock. Two different beasts.
- BIair 13y ago
  MVP hosts file blocks ads on Windows machines by editing the hosts file. No 3rd party software needed. http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm
  - dhimes 13y ago
    Seems like it should work on other OSs too, actually. Thanks for the link.
- andyn 13y ago
  I use "Adblock Edge" as an alternative. It's basically a fork of adblock plus but without the "acceptable ads" feature.
  - linker3000 13y ago
    I never appreciated the difference or history of the Adblock and Adblock Plus plugins. I'm currently removing ABP from all my desktops and laptops in favour of Adblock Edge. Thanks.
phorese 13y ago
Thanks, that first link is awesome! Well, at least if you can look past the boatload of sarcasm :/
mratzloff 13y ago
Use Adblock instead. Adblock Plus is another product entirely, unrelated despite the name trading on the popularity of Adblock.
- nathan_long 13y ago
  Yes, they are separate, but the history of the names is complicated. See "why are the names so similar?" on https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus
levesque 13y ago
Alright, that's enough, I don't trust these guys to tell me which ads should be blocked and which shouldn't. Uninstalled.

Nursie 13y ago

I don't like the implied threat stuff going on here. I may look for a different ad blocking solution. But that article was pretty shrill. As far as I'm concerned, most online advertising is malware.

tekmate 13y ago
if you don't want to support eyeo there's a fork of ABP called adblock edge. works just as well, without the acceptable ads racket

cstross 13y ago

Frankly, I hate advertising -- ALL advertising, not just web advertising -- and want the advertising industry to die in a fire. I recognize this is a bit controversial, especially with Americans (who seem unable to conceive of content industries that can exist in the absence of advertising: the BBC and the entire book publishing industry apparently exist in a cognitive blind spot), but advertising is mostly oriented around selling us stuff we don't want or need, and as such it shares many characteristics with spam; it's insidious, intrusive, tries to steal your attention, and works by instilling uncertainty and self-doubt. Yes, 90% of the web would die without advertising -- but I think we'd be better off with just the 10% left over, because it'd be the best 10% (the stuff that has a viable business model that works without advertising).

iambateman 13y ago
I don't think you really hate advertising as much as you say. You get to use tons and tons of great sites without paying money, because the good people of ADVERT_CO paid for your attention. Advertising gives you something you want, so you pay attention to something you don't want. But unless you want to pay a subscription fee to every site you use, it's not a bad deal at all.
- lazyjones 13y ago
  > But unless you want to pay a subscription fee to every site you use, it's not a bad deal at all. There are websites out there that do not rely on ads and do not require a paid subscription to be used (I built one, a CSE).
  - cstross 13y ago
    Yup. Me too. That's the principle I run on.
  - stingraycharles 13y ago
    How do you make money from your site?

degenerate 13y ago

I've been happily using Adblock Edge (a fork of ABP without the acceptable ads feature): https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/ https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/ I allow ads on sites I support and respect, and everyone else gets blocked. I'd rather do that myself than have ABP decide that for me. Unfortunately ABE is not available for Chrome (see https://bitbucket.org/adstomper/adblockedge/issue/23/adblock-edge-for-chrome https://bitbucket.org/adstomper/adblockedge/issue/23/adblock...), so I still use ABP on Chrome. Is there an alternative out there yet?

nathan_long 13y ago
Yes. AdBlock (https://getadblock.com https://getadblock.com) is actually the most popular extension on Chrome, more than Adblock Plus. It blocks solely based on your filter subscriptions and custom rules and is funded solely by usrs. https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus
drcongo 13y ago
On OS X there's GlimmerBlocker, which is hugely superior to AdBlock Pro or Edge. [1] http://glimmerblocker.org http://glimmerblocker.org

_Lemon_ 13y ago

As an alternative, I switched to Adblock Edge: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/

jacquesm 13y ago

Adblockers should just block ads, not be used to extort money once they reach a certain level of adoption.

iambateman 13y ago

Here's the problem...anything that can be done, will be done. And ads can be blocked online. It's just reality. Like digital music will be copied and secret government problems will be leaked and embarrassing pictures of politicians will surface online. It doesn't matter what you want to happen. It's just going to. So we, as people who profit from the web, need to think about structuring our businesses in such a way that the inevitable doesn't kill our work. (FWIW, Adblock's business model is apparently extortion, which makes me sick.)

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

peterwwillis 13y ago

"The Internet's business model" The internet is a single business with one business model? Holy shit. It must work well, as I hear the internet's all the rage with the young folks. Should've invested sooner.

psn 13y ago

Hah. I recall antispam companies doing the same thing - once they got big enough, they demanded money from major mail exchanges. I'm sure companies paid out rather than risk long legal cases and poor PR.

gabemart 13y ago

> But sites are rarely paid “per click”. Doesn't google AdSense alone count for a non-trivial portion of internet advertising? Unless the rules are different for bigger partners, all AdSense revenue is per click.

nathan_long 13y ago

Please note: This article is about Adblock Plus. AdBlock is a completely separate extension with different developers, and is 100% user-supported. Details: https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus https://getadblock.com/adblock-is-not-adblock-plus

bsullivan01 13y ago

Ads are fine, up to a point. If the page is almost all ads and not marked clearly as so, then F that company. But these AdBlock PLUS guys are extortionists. Google paid and their ads are "acceptable." all of the sudden. (Disclaimer: not a fan of Google at all) Google being the world's largest advertiser is leading the way in putting the entire business model at risk, ruining ads for everyone. They started with no ads, then a few ads on the side, then on top, then 2-5 on top and 12 on the sides, now ads everywhere and just a few results hidden by ads. Now the product search is 100% ads and I doubt that most people know (not everyone reads HN and Ars) I posted them before but this is a disgrace and it's not receiving the needed attention from the media: http://i.imgur.com/mhJhc5W.png http://i.imgur.com/mhJhc5W.png http://ho9od35yvs05ejqn.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Google-Adwords-HD-Monitor.jpg http://ho9od35yvs05ejqn.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/u...

SudoNick 13y ago

Given that the business model in question has come to revolve around highly targeted advertising achieved via extensive tracking and profiling of users, it certainly deserves to be threatened. Unfortunately, the AdblockPlus "acceptable ads" criteria don't address the privacy issues. So the ABP folks are actually promoting advertising standards and ads that are intrusive. To make matters worse, this "ad blocker" that supposedly "protects your online privacy" is purposely equipped with a material defect in the form of an enabled by default whitelist that allows many ads through including those that are harmful to your privacy. Those unsuspecting users who fail to learn of this and/or those who forget to opt-out can get burned.

MichaelMoser123 13y ago

I have written a short article on adds and 'peak advertising'. Might be of interest. http://mosermichael.github.io/cstuff/all/blogg/2013/10/14/post.1.html http://mosermichael.github.io/cstuff/all/blogg/2013/10/14/po...

Sagat 13y ago

Ads make for some interesting doublethink. One one hand, I hate the consumer oriented society that wastes resources on a ton of useless products; I despise the scummy advertisers who manipulate people into pursuing the wrong goals. On the other, I like having stuff and will happily buy things to put inside my home and on my person. I am totally dependent on the consumer ecosystem and I enjoy creature comforts. That said, when I truly need something I will make a targeted search for it. It's really rare to see ads that actually interest me. So I am generally extremely hostile to the ad business. I hate everything about them, because they symbolize the uncomfortable truths and compromises our society rests upon. They are everywhere and mostly do nothing but sap your mental energy.

nathan_long 13y ago

The advertising problem is very strange. There is content we do want which we could have by paying a small amount. But we're (by and large) unwilling. So we get ads. A tiny fraction of the ads are clicked, and a tiny fraction of the money spent on that product goes back to the content producer. And that's enough to fund them. We could avoid seeing 100 ads which end up giving 10 cents to the site if we'd just pay 10 cents each.[1] It would be nicer for us and simpler for the content producers. But we're not willing, apparently. It seems perverse to claim that we value good articles and shows if we force the creators to sell us boots in order to make a living. Oh, micropayments, when will we find a workable system for you? [1] Made-up numbers

jonathansizz 13y ago

Can anyone shed some light on the Hacker News story ranking algorithm? After 1 hour, this submission was in third place on the front page, then I checked again about 15 minutes later and it had dropped to 93rd place, on page 4! There are many other stories that are both older and have fewer points that are higher up the rankings. Judging by the number of comments, this link is obviously a story of interest to HN. Just curious what's going on..

bsullivan01 13y ago
Employes of a certain company that starts with G do this on stories harmful to their employer. I'd bet that's the reason.
- jonathansizz 13y ago
  So the ranking isn't simply based on a combination of age and upvotes? I see.
  - bsullivan01 13y ago
    I think it also has to do with a rush new votes up or down. Sort of trending

maaarghk 13y ago

Thanks, due to this post I have switched from ABP on chrome to Adblock. Had no idea the ABP people were acting in this way, will try to spread the word.