5 ms·

Flat, marriage and family – Why young Indians don’t turn entrepreneurs

45 points by sunasra 13y ago

Mikeb85 13y ago
There is such thing as having 'enough' in life. For many people, having a mediocre job is OK if you can simply take care of your family, and have a happy home life. I for one, will never judge anyone who chooses happiness and life balance over career success.
- waps 13y ago
  +1 It's the people giving up all those things for a tiny chance at career success that are the insane ones. Those 3 things are non-negotiable to me, and frankly, don't prevent career success.
fab101 13y ago
Most of it is true. I would want to add that our education system does not support/encourage a start-up/business/creative mindset. Even today, most of the bachelors degree courses are oriented towards teaching for and endorsing high grades (just to qualify for jobs and PG entrance exams) rather than developing critical thinking.
okpatil 13y ago
I couldn't agree more. Dude, I am going through the same. Here is my solution. Flat := I am not buying one. Life-long-renting rocks. Marriage := No marriage till my business settles. Family := My parents understand what I am doing. And I don't give a shit about anyone else.
anuraj 13y ago
A bit immature, shall I say? Everybody finds their own mojo in life, for some it is entrepreneurship. You will not be successful just by being in a profession, you have to be outstanding in that profession. Understand and appreciate other's choices. Entrepreneurship needs some wisdom too.
- cowls 13y ago
  Yes, very immature. "Of course, she’s happily married and I, having failed 2 startups in the past, am still building another startup! (I hope this post reaches you, lady!)" erm, what?
Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
I'm not sure that this is specific to India - I think there's an obvious incompatibility between taking on financial responsibility for others and the level of risk inherent in start-ups. The difference may just be that Indian's marry younger so it kicks in earlier.
chattoraj 13y ago
I get what he's trying to say, but the rant is far too sophomoric. > These relatives are probably the ones whose kids would have done “nothing” in their lives The point could have been made without insulting their kids. > One of my ex girlfriend had started talking about marriage barely when we had graduated ... Of course, she’s happily married and I, having failed 2 startups in the past, am still building another startup! (I hope this post reaches you, lady!) > In another relationship, [my girlfriend] asked “Abhinav, hum ghar kab lenge?” [Abhinav, when will we buy a home?] That day itself I knew – she wasn’t the one! No wonder that relationship didn’t last long.(I am quite sure you’re reading this!) Nothing classier than getting on an internet soapbox to tell your exes they were wrong. > one such highly respected family member told me to look for a career in animation, back in 2007-08. Recently, I met him at another family gathering a few months back and he said “tum animation me kuch kyu nahi try karte?” [Why don't you try something in animation?] I was like…dude? You are still the same! Your thoughts are still stuck where they were 4-5 years back! The author has, as of that moment, been involved in two failed startups and is working on the third. The other guy, doubting the author's ability to win the startup lottery, helpfully suggests a career in a rapidly-growing industry. Author's response: Make fun of him for suggesting the same industry twice. Wat.
- prawks 13y ago
  Agreed, I'm disappointed this made the front page. It's more or less a rant on people with different ideas than the author. > graduated from some (worthless) A league institution in India and landed a fat paying job. And believe me these are absolutely good for nothing folks. If you are a startup guy, you already know that, don’t you ;) I stopped reading after that, it reads like a YouTube comment.
r0h1n 13y ago
Why do Indian devs feel compelled to blame their parents, families, wives, society for everything? Come on guys, this is 2013 and not 2005. There are tons of product startups in Delhi/Bangalore/Pune/Chennai. If you don't find one that works for you, start one on your own. Sure India isn't the US or Israel. But neither is it the India of 10 years back. Carpe diem!
- nmudgal 13y ago
  Yes, it is 2013, but most of the population is still stuck in 1980s mindset, they use whatsapp to chat but never really cared about "what the heck is android"? People still believe in child marriages (http://world.time.com/2013/10/14/india-snubs-u-n-on-child-bride-resolution/ http://world.time.com/2013/10/14/india-snubs-u-n-on-child-br...), families/society still think it is prestigious for them and their kids to work at Big IT/Non-IT/Govt Firms irrespective of their (kids) interest, rather than starting their own or working with startups. I think that's what author is actually trying to point out, that it is hard nut to crack.
- krmmalik 13y ago
  I won't defend the quality of the article itself and rants are never a good thing, but Westerners are never really going to understand how crippling societal norms in the Indo-Pak region are. Maturity has differing definitions in the East compared to the West and personally I think it's a little unfair to make comparisons. What's considered mature in the west can often be considered immature in the east. The youth that belong to ethnic minorities in the west often under go major identity crises, and takes them a very long time to come to terms with it. Yes, we're in 2013 and there are great start-ups in India, but I'll be the first to tell you these are still huge exceptions to the rule. Things are starting to change, definitely and things are starting to move, but it's still going to take time. You cannot begin to imagine the pressure young easterners face from their parents and their families to live to the ideals of their parents and extended families. I live in the UK, I could give you over 20 examples of my own life that held me back - Now i've learned to ignore those pressures and am taking corrective action, but believe me it's not easy. I could give you over a 100 examples of others. Even when living within the West, ethnic minorities have huge pressures from the sub-culture. It's never good to blame anything or anyone - that I agree with, but to suggest that it's easy to overcome the cultural obstacles would be an unfair statement.
nmudgal 13y ago
Poor author wouldn't have heard of HN if this post had not made it here. :P
true_religion 13y ago
I long for the days, long past gone, when people waited to be successful in their endeavors before stepping up onto a soap box to tell us why everyone is wrong for not embracing the same lifestyle as them.
ismail 13y ago
saying that marriage and kids discourages entrepreneurship, is not entirely correct. think it depends on the person, yes your risk profile changes once you are married, and some would be discouraged. not all will be, I quit my job for a startup with a 1 year old daughter. Granted I had saved up to last me 6 months though its not enough. The challenge however is when your wife has a different risk profile, 3 months in of living on the bare minimum, eating noodles/beans everyday she may convince you to get a real job. The challenges faced my married entrepreneurs are different, you have to manage the expectations and sell them on the dream. If your partner is not sold, it can cause probs in the marriage. Also it can be a serious motivator, you will do anything hustle your way to makr sure you can at least eat and pay the rent.
- Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
  Certainly if you're going to enter into this sort of venture when you're married with a young family, it's a decision you need to make as a family rather than make yourself and try to impose on them. Other than the capacity for risk and relative poverty elements, two other things I'd throw out there as factors are: 1) Exhaustion: I've two young children and the first few years of their lives I was exhausted most of the time and I know that I wasn't at my best professionally (lack of sleep makes you stupid and forgetful). It really isn't the best state to be risking everything on your own abilities. 2) Balancing work and life: If you're going to have kids you probably want (that's genuinely want rather than feel obliged) to spend time with them. It's different to a lot of other things you might want to do with your time in that there are things you can't say "I'll do later in life". They grow up incredibly quickly in those early years and it's not something you get a second shot at experiencing - you can't go back and see your infant child five years down the line when your business is settled. And that's before the practicalities of child care and everything else that goes with it...
dbg31415 13y ago
Flat, marriage, and family. That's 3 reasons. Flat, marriage and family. That's 2 reasons.
- rimantas 13y ago
  Jack, John and Jill came to the party. Jack, John, and Jill came to the party. Three people came in both cases.
- caw 13y ago
  It's called the "serial" comma, or "Oxford" comma. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma Some style guides promote use of it, some do not.
deepak56 13y ago
To be fair, I don't think the author expected the rant to be critically analyzed at HN. He probably just wanted to vent, share some anecdotes and move on - won't be happening now. Either way, what he said is not completely untrue. Obviously India has a very family oriented culture. A lot of educated young people are first generation educated, and thereby there are always expectations. Expectations, that are not just limited to settling down but that also lean towards making people risk averse. Times are changing, but the hangover of the days when people used to join one company right after college (preferably a government job) and retire after 40 years are still here. Couple that with the fact that our higher education system is pretty much a mess, with very little directly applicable skills taught. And you can see why such questions are part & parcel of life if you have been out of college for 3-4 years. Not all bad though, the big cities are seeing an enormous number of startup events. I cover startups and have seen very passionate student startups coming out of even Tier2/3 colleges and there are plenty of incubators/accelerators around. If you are a young aspiring entrepreneur, you will have far more complex things to worry about than an occasional relative asking, "When are you getting married"
lennexz 13y ago
Rant or now, too direct or not this post is spot on. I am not Indian but can relate to what he is writing about. Young Africans are facing the same problem. Its not until recently I decided to take my own path not that which was dictated by family and society. Kudos bra for having the courage to write THIS as it is.

45 points by sunasra 13y ago

There is such thing as having 'enough' in life. For many people, having a mediocre job is OK if you can simply take care of your family, and have a happy home life. I for one, will never judge anyone who chooses happiness and life balance over career success.

waps 13y ago
+1 It's the people giving up all those things for a tiny chance at career success that are the insane ones. Those 3 things are non-negotiable to me, and frankly, don't prevent career success.

fab101 13y ago

Most of it is true. I would want to add that our education system does not support/encourage a start-up/business/creative mindset. Even today, most of the bachelors degree courses are oriented towards teaching for and endorsing high grades (just to qualify for jobs and PG entrance exams) rather than developing critical thinking.

okpatil 13y ago

I couldn't agree more. Dude, I am going through the same. Here is my solution. Flat := I am not buying one. Life-long-renting rocks. Marriage := No marriage till my business settles. Family := My parents understand what I am doing. And I don't give a shit about anyone else.

anuraj 13y ago

A bit immature, shall I say? Everybody finds their own mojo in life, for some it is entrepreneurship. You will not be successful just by being in a profession, you have to be outstanding in that profession. Understand and appreciate other's choices. Entrepreneurship needs some wisdom too.

cowls 13y ago
Yes, very immature. "Of course, she’s happily married and I, having failed 2 startups in the past, am still building another startup! (I hope this post reaches you, lady!)" erm, what?

Tyrannosaurs 13y ago

I'm not sure that this is specific to India - I think there's an obvious incompatibility between taking on financial responsibility for others and the level of risk inherent in start-ups. The difference may just be that Indian's marry younger so it kicks in earlier.

chattoraj 13y ago

I get what he's trying to say, but the rant is far too sophomoric. > These relatives are probably the ones whose kids would have done “nothing” in their lives The point could have been made without insulting their kids. > One of my ex girlfriend had started talking about marriage barely when we had graduated ... Of course, she’s happily married and I, having failed 2 startups in the past, am still building another startup! (I hope this post reaches you, lady!) > In another relationship, [my girlfriend] asked “Abhinav, hum ghar kab lenge?” [Abhinav, when will we buy a home?] That day itself I knew – she wasn’t the one! No wonder that relationship didn’t last long.(I am quite sure you’re reading this!) Nothing classier than getting on an internet soapbox to tell your exes they were wrong. > one such highly respected family member told me to look for a career in animation, back in 2007-08. Recently, I met him at another family gathering a few months back and he said “tum animation me kuch kyu nahi try karte?” [Why don't you try something in animation?] I was like…dude? You are still the same! Your thoughts are still stuck where they were 4-5 years back! The author has, as of that moment, been involved in two failed startups and is working on the third. The other guy, doubting the author's ability to win the startup lottery, helpfully suggests a career in a rapidly-growing industry. Author's response: Make fun of him for suggesting the same industry twice. Wat.

prawks 13y ago
Agreed, I'm disappointed this made the front page. It's more or less a rant on people with different ideas than the author. > graduated from some (worthless) A league institution in India and landed a fat paying job. And believe me these are absolutely good for nothing folks. If you are a startup guy, you already know that, don’t you ;) I stopped reading after that, it reads like a YouTube comment.

r0h1n 13y ago

Why do Indian devs feel compelled to blame their parents, families, wives, society for everything? Come on guys, this is 2013 and not 2005. There are tons of product startups in Delhi/Bangalore/Pune/Chennai. If you don't find one that works for you, start one on your own. Sure India isn't the US or Israel. But neither is it the India of 10 years back. Carpe diem!

nmudgal 13y ago
Yes, it is 2013, but most of the population is still stuck in 1980s mindset, they use whatsapp to chat but never really cared about "what the heck is android"? People still believe in child marriages (http://world.time.com/2013/10/14/india-snubs-u-n-on-child-bride-resolution/ http://world.time.com/2013/10/14/india-snubs-u-n-on-child-br...), families/society still think it is prestigious for them and their kids to work at Big IT/Non-IT/Govt Firms irrespective of their (kids) interest, rather than starting their own or working with startups. I think that's what author is actually trying to point out, that it is hard nut to crack.
krmmalik 13y ago
I won't defend the quality of the article itself and rants are never a good thing, but Westerners are never really going to understand how crippling societal norms in the Indo-Pak region are. Maturity has differing definitions in the East compared to the West and personally I think it's a little unfair to make comparisons. What's considered mature in the west can often be considered immature in the east. The youth that belong to ethnic minorities in the west often under go major identity crises, and takes them a very long time to come to terms with it. Yes, we're in 2013 and there are great start-ups in India, but I'll be the first to tell you these are still huge exceptions to the rule. Things are starting to change, definitely and things are starting to move, but it's still going to take time. You cannot begin to imagine the pressure young easterners face from their parents and their families to live to the ideals of their parents and extended families. I live in the UK, I could give you over 20 examples of my own life that held me back - Now i've learned to ignore those pressures and am taking corrective action, but believe me it's not easy. I could give you over a 100 examples of others. Even when living within the West, ethnic minorities have huge pressures from the sub-culture. It's never good to blame anything or anyone - that I agree with, but to suggest that it's easy to overcome the cultural obstacles would be an unfair statement.

nmudgal 13y ago

Poor author wouldn't have heard of HN if this post had not made it here. :P

true_religion 13y ago

I long for the days, long past gone, when people waited to be successful in their endeavors before stepping up onto a soap box to tell us why everyone is wrong for not embracing the same lifestyle as them.

ismail 13y ago

saying that marriage and kids discourages entrepreneurship, is not entirely correct. think it depends on the person, yes your risk profile changes once you are married, and some would be discouraged. not all will be, I quit my job for a startup with a 1 year old daughter. Granted I had saved up to last me 6 months though its not enough. The challenge however is when your wife has a different risk profile, 3 months in of living on the bare minimum, eating noodles/beans everyday she may convince you to get a real job. The challenges faced my married entrepreneurs are different, you have to manage the expectations and sell them on the dream. If your partner is not sold, it can cause probs in the marriage. Also it can be a serious motivator, you will do anything hustle your way to makr sure you can at least eat and pay the rent.

Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
Certainly if you're going to enter into this sort of venture when you're married with a young family, it's a decision you need to make as a family rather than make yourself and try to impose on them. Other than the capacity for risk and relative poverty elements, two other things I'd throw out there as factors are: 1) Exhaustion: I've two young children and the first few years of their lives I was exhausted most of the time and I know that I wasn't at my best professionally (lack of sleep makes you stupid and forgetful). It really isn't the best state to be risking everything on your own abilities. 2) Balancing work and life: If you're going to have kids you probably want (that's genuinely want rather than feel obliged) to spend time with them. It's different to a lot of other things you might want to do with your time in that there are things you can't say "I'll do later in life". They grow up incredibly quickly in those early years and it's not something you get a second shot at experiencing - you can't go back and see your infant child five years down the line when your business is settled. And that's before the practicalities of child care and everything else that goes with it...

dbg31415 13y ago

Flat, marriage, and family. That's 3 reasons. Flat, marriage and family. That's 2 reasons.

rimantas 13y ago
Jack, John and Jill came to the party. Jack, John, and Jill came to the party. Three people came in both cases.
caw 13y ago
It's called the "serial" comma, or "Oxford" comma. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma Some style guides promote use of it, some do not.

deepak56 13y ago

To be fair, I don't think the author expected the rant to be critically analyzed at HN. He probably just wanted to vent, share some anecdotes and move on - won't be happening now. Either way, what he said is not completely untrue. Obviously India has a very family oriented culture. A lot of educated young people are first generation educated, and thereby there are always expectations. Expectations, that are not just limited to settling down but that also lean towards making people risk averse. Times are changing, but the hangover of the days when people used to join one company right after college (preferably a government job) and retire after 40 years are still here. Couple that with the fact that our higher education system is pretty much a mess, with very little directly applicable skills taught. And you can see why such questions are part & parcel of life if you have been out of college for 3-4 years. Not all bad though, the big cities are seeing an enormous number of startup events. I cover startups and have seen very passionate student startups coming out of even Tier2/3 colleges and there are plenty of incubators/accelerators around. If you are a young aspiring entrepreneur, you will have far more complex things to worry about than an occasional relative asking, "When are you getting married"

lennexz 13y ago

Rant or now, too direct or not this post is spot on. I am not Indian but can relate to what he is writing about. Young Africans are facing the same problem. Its not until recently I decided to take my own path not that which was dictated by family and society. Kudos bra for having the courage to write THIS as it is.