5 ms·

Removing my children from the Internet

33 points by xiaoma 13y ago

jrockway 13y ago
We need a more ephemeral social sharing system. Why not just delete things after a year?
- eksith 13y ago
  The internet is not delete-friendly at present. There are scrapers for every feed, every network and every keyboard has a print-screen button. Just as "the only winning move is to not play", the only way to ensure your information isn't on the internet (precluding hacks) is to not put it there in the first place.
  - rytis 13y ago
    "not put it there in the first place" Unfortunately that's not always possible. For example you're in a pub with your friends, and someone takes a group picture and posts it online. Even if you don't have FB account, you're there, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Very annoying.
    - eksith 13y ago
      This has happened to me. It's definitely a risk, of course, and there's little you can do short of losing your friends and any semblance of a social life these days. You could have a chat with them and see if they're willing to respect your privacy. Nothing much that can be done about strangers who do that though. I've seen a few places that actively ban Google Glass (I think that was mentioned here as well), but there are no bans on camera phones in any place as far as I know. If a thing exists, it will be used after all. Original intent be damned.
- rtb 13y ago
  That's not how computers (currently) work. Every act of reading involves copying, so it's unrealistic to expect anything on the internet to be easily deletable. See e.g. http://archive.org/web/web.php http://archive.org/web/web.php
- scotty79 13y ago
  Isn't that sentiment come just from being used to our own limitations? Making computer that forgets is like making more and more fantastic cars that run no faster than a horse because some people feel uncomfortable with them going faster. I personally hate forgetting and I'd very much liked if I could call up, a computer system and recall every bit of my life. Everything I've seen, heard, and any data from any sensors that were in my vicinity.
- emillon 13y ago
  Snapchat works like this and is reasonably successful. But of course, there is no technical way to enforce the ephemeral aspect.
retube 13y ago
Here here. It's a gross abuse of privacy posting pictures of your children online. Unfortunately many parents seem not to stop to think of the possible ramifications a few years down the line.
- scotty79 13y ago
  Main ramification of oversharing is that their kid will be just like everybody else. For example I have total privacy. I have no photos from my early childhood. None. How do you think I feel when I know that all other people have some or lots? I feel like I haven't existed back then at all. Like I popped into existence at age 6 or something. Or that I was too ugly, or too plain to photograph. How will a kid feel that has no published photos of her/him online? He might think that he was ugly or unremarkable and parents were just ashamed of her/him or that parents hoped he'll die so why introduce kid to the public or that they just hated her/him?
  - darklajid 13y ago
    Erm.. What's the connection between 'no photos online' and 'no photos'? I guess no one is arguing that parents shouldn't take pictures/videos of their kids. Keep them, just like parents for our generation did (I assume 79 is your year of birth) in a private place. If the kids want to have those later: Sure, these pictures are theirs to begin with. Take pictures, if you want. Store them locally or .. print them out. Your personal lack of pictures is a different thing and not connected to the point here - although I guess it helps understanding your 'pro sharing' comments.
    - scotty79 13y ago
      > What's the connection between 'no photos online' and 'no photos'? If I have no photos, then none can be posted online - event better guarantee that they won't ever be posted online without my consent. But you are not asking, rather saying that those are not the same thing. Yes. They are not. I used it as just an analogy. 10 years from now might be as weird to be kid with no early childhood photos online as today it is to be the kid with no photos at all.
pfortuny 13y ago
Yes, you do not own your children (they are "yours" in their origin and your responsibility towards them). Children have an expectancy of privacy and anonymity much more sensitive than those of grown-ups. Parents have no right to pretend they know their children's desires in this context. Not that I am against ANY sharing but sense and sensibility are both required. (Edit grammery...)
- vacri 13y ago
  Part of a paren't role is to train their kids for the life ahead. Hand-wringing about "what my child wants" runs somewhat counter to setting expectations and desires. Plenty of kids only want to eat candy and ice-cream, but we don't frown at parents for saying 'no' to those desires. Share things sensibly. Maybe don't share things like naked bath photos. But your kids are part of your life, and it's normal to share with others the things you have done with the people close to you.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Facebook employees shouldn't count as "people close to you", though.
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      Back in the old days one had to bring camera films to a store to get the photographs. Facebook employees are similar to store clerks here - both have too much volume of photos going through their business to care about any one in particular.
tzaman 13y ago
When we got our first child, my wife also went on a sharing spree, trying to put everything on Facebook. When I noticed that we had a long talk where I explained to her that even a newborn deserves his own privacy, just as us adults do and she admitted she didn't think of that and from there on, we just post really significant stuff that won't embarrass our kids when they grow up.
- scotty79 13y ago
  How can you, adult, be embarrassed by something you did as a toddler or even 5 year old?
  - k__ 13y ago
    Good question. Parents tend to be paranoid, can't help it. Last week a friend of mine asked me, what I think about piercings, because his daughter (15) wants one. He was all, she's going to destroy her body and life and all.
  - reginaldjcooper 13y ago
    I am embarrassed due to dumb shit I said when I was 5 due to cognitive bias. If you browse tumblr for a while this is a pretty common trope among humans.
    - scotty79 13y ago
      Isn't that embarrassment something that should be addressed? Child is born as a racist sadist and gradually becomes socialized as circuitry for empathy developes. I have done some stuff as a kid I wish I haven't but I can't be embarrassed about it. I didn't have a properly developed brain back then. Being a kid is like having a condition. You can't hold yourself responsible for what your body did then.
      - reginaldjcooper 13y ago
        I guess it should be addressed. I can reach a logical conclusion that I should not be, for the same reasons you state. I in fact feel like an almost completely different entity than young me. And yet I still wince a bit to think of this stuff. But should I see a therapist to address my feelings about crying due to the results of a children's athletic competition? I guess I ultimately wouldn't care if my friends knew that one, but I can empathize with people that would feel super uncomfortable.
conformal 13y ago
not looking forward to having this discussion with my wife come baby time. i don't like to share anything online and she loves to have pictures up all the time. it sucks that so many net-based businesses make privacy so hard.
lnanek2 13y ago
Doesn't seem to be of any value to me. Kid would be better off if she worked an extra hour a day instead of wasting time deleting old shares that don't matter. I grew up with family picture books of me as a kid in compromising situations, no one really cares if you ran around naked as a toddler with a bag on your head. Hell, some people even find the albums funny, and girlfriends feel closer to you after seeing embarrassing stuff like that.
- darklajid 13y ago
  And when you applied for your first job your mum came along and shared these pictures with your future boss? Are you really comparing the private "Hey, you're going to marry. Want to see what little lnanek looked like when he was 4?" album with data on the net?
  - eru 13y ago
    If you are in the US, any boss would be avoiding any such knowledge like the plague. They don't want to be sued.
ck2 13y ago
Any photo you have on facebook, no matter how private you think it is, eventually they will tweak the rules again to where it is publicly exposed by default until you opt out. You may never learn about the change and never know to opt-out until it is too late. The moving target is by design, not accident. If you use facebook for anything other than a throwaway account, you are exposed.
mcv 13y ago
I'm a massive hypocrite. I don't use photos of my face as avatar on FB and G+, but I do share photos of my son. I'm a terrible person.
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
Posting pictures of your kids online is one thing. Giving those pictures to a service like Facebook is of an entire order altogether. One of them is about privacy, and there is a grey area. The other is exploiting children. Basically you're giving Facebook pictures of your kids as payment in return for a "free" service. People should be aware that when they do that it's not "sharing", it's selling.

33 points by xiaoma 13y ago

jrockway 13y ago

We need a more ephemeral social sharing system. Why not just delete things after a year?

eksith 13y ago
The internet is not delete-friendly at present. There are scrapers for every feed, every network and every keyboard has a print-screen button. Just as "the only winning move is to not play", the only way to ensure your information isn't on the internet (precluding hacks) is to not put it there in the first place.
- rytis 13y ago
  "not put it there in the first place" Unfortunately that's not always possible. For example you're in a pub with your friends, and someone takes a group picture and posts it online. Even if you don't have FB account, you're there, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Very annoying.
  - eksith 13y ago
    This has happened to me. It's definitely a risk, of course, and there's little you can do short of losing your friends and any semblance of a social life these days. You could have a chat with them and see if they're willing to respect your privacy. Nothing much that can be done about strangers who do that though. I've seen a few places that actively ban Google Glass (I think that was mentioned here as well), but there are no bans on camera phones in any place as far as I know. If a thing exists, it will be used after all. Original intent be damned.
rtb 13y ago
That's not how computers (currently) work. Every act of reading involves copying, so it's unrealistic to expect anything on the internet to be easily deletable. See e.g. http://archive.org/web/web.php http://archive.org/web/web.php
scotty79 13y ago
Isn't that sentiment come just from being used to our own limitations? Making computer that forgets is like making more and more fantastic cars that run no faster than a horse because some people feel uncomfortable with them going faster. I personally hate forgetting and I'd very much liked if I could call up, a computer system and recall every bit of my life. Everything I've seen, heard, and any data from any sensors that were in my vicinity.
emillon 13y ago
Snapchat works like this and is reasonably successful. But of course, there is no technical way to enforce the ephemeral aspect.

retube 13y ago

Here here. It's a gross abuse of privacy posting pictures of your children online. Unfortunately many parents seem not to stop to think of the possible ramifications a few years down the line.

scotty79 13y ago
Main ramification of oversharing is that their kid will be just like everybody else. For example I have total privacy. I have no photos from my early childhood. None. How do you think I feel when I know that all other people have some or lots? I feel like I haven't existed back then at all. Like I popped into existence at age 6 or something. Or that I was too ugly, or too plain to photograph. How will a kid feel that has no published photos of her/him online? He might think that he was ugly or unremarkable and parents were just ashamed of her/him or that parents hoped he'll die so why introduce kid to the public or that they just hated her/him?
- darklajid 13y ago
  Erm.. What's the connection between 'no photos online' and 'no photos'? I guess no one is arguing that parents shouldn't take pictures/videos of their kids. Keep them, just like parents for our generation did (I assume 79 is your year of birth) in a private place. If the kids want to have those later: Sure, these pictures are theirs to begin with. Take pictures, if you want. Store them locally or .. print them out. Your personal lack of pictures is a different thing and not connected to the point here - although I guess it helps understanding your 'pro sharing' comments.
  - scotty79 13y ago
    > What's the connection between 'no photos online' and 'no photos'? If I have no photos, then none can be posted online - event better guarantee that they won't ever be posted online without my consent. But you are not asking, rather saying that those are not the same thing. Yes. They are not. I used it as just an analogy. 10 years from now might be as weird to be kid with no early childhood photos online as today it is to be the kid with no photos at all.

pfortuny 13y ago

Yes, you do not own your children (they are "yours" in their origin and your responsibility towards them). Children have an expectancy of privacy and anonymity much more sensitive than those of grown-ups. Parents have no right to pretend they know their children's desires in this context. Not that I am against ANY sharing but sense and sensibility are both required. (Edit grammery...)

vacri 13y ago
Part of a paren't role is to train their kids for the life ahead. Hand-wringing about "what my child wants" runs somewhat counter to setting expectations and desires. Plenty of kids only want to eat candy and ice-cream, but we don't frown at parents for saying 'no' to those desires. Share things sensibly. Maybe don't share things like naked bath photos. But your kids are part of your life, and it's normal to share with others the things you have done with the people close to you.
- icebraining 13y ago
  Facebook employees shouldn't count as "people close to you", though.
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    Back in the old days one had to bring camera films to a store to get the photographs. Facebook employees are similar to store clerks here - both have too much volume of photos going through their business to care about any one in particular.

tzaman 13y ago

When we got our first child, my wife also went on a sharing spree, trying to put everything on Facebook. When I noticed that we had a long talk where I explained to her that even a newborn deserves his own privacy, just as us adults do and she admitted she didn't think of that and from there on, we just post really significant stuff that won't embarrass our kids when they grow up.

scotty79 13y ago
How can you, adult, be embarrassed by something you did as a toddler or even 5 year old?
- k__ 13y ago
  Good question. Parents tend to be paranoid, can't help it. Last week a friend of mine asked me, what I think about piercings, because his daughter (15) wants one. He was all, she's going to destroy her body and life and all.
- reginaldjcooper 13y ago
  I am embarrassed due to dumb shit I said when I was 5 due to cognitive bias. If you browse tumblr for a while this is a pretty common trope among humans.
  - scotty79 13y ago
    Isn't that embarrassment something that should be addressed? Child is born as a racist sadist and gradually becomes socialized as circuitry for empathy developes. I have done some stuff as a kid I wish I haven't but I can't be embarrassed about it. I didn't have a properly developed brain back then. Being a kid is like having a condition. You can't hold yourself responsible for what your body did then.
    - reginaldjcooper 13y ago
      I guess it should be addressed. I can reach a logical conclusion that I should not be, for the same reasons you state. I in fact feel like an almost completely different entity than young me. And yet I still wince a bit to think of this stuff. But should I see a therapist to address my feelings about crying due to the results of a children's athletic competition? I guess I ultimately wouldn't care if my friends knew that one, but I can empathize with people that would feel super uncomfortable.

conformal 13y ago

not looking forward to having this discussion with my wife come baby time. i don't like to share anything online and she loves to have pictures up all the time. it sucks that so many net-based businesses make privacy so hard.

lnanek2 13y ago

Doesn't seem to be of any value to me. Kid would be better off if she worked an extra hour a day instead of wasting time deleting old shares that don't matter. I grew up with family picture books of me as a kid in compromising situations, no one really cares if you ran around naked as a toddler with a bag on your head. Hell, some people even find the albums funny, and girlfriends feel closer to you after seeing embarrassing stuff like that.

darklajid 13y ago
And when you applied for your first job your mum came along and shared these pictures with your future boss? Are you really comparing the private "Hey, you're going to marry. Want to see what little lnanek looked like when he was 4?" album with data on the net?
- eru 13y ago
  If you are in the US, any boss would be avoiding any such knowledge like the plague. They don't want to be sued.

ck2 13y ago

Any photo you have on facebook, no matter how private you think it is, eventually they will tweak the rules again to where it is publicly exposed by default until you opt out. You may never learn about the change and never know to opt-out until it is too late. The moving target is by design, not accident. If you use facebook for anything other than a throwaway account, you are exposed.

mcv 13y ago

I'm a massive hypocrite. I don't use photos of my face as avatar on FB and G+, but I do share photos of my son. I'm a terrible person.

bowlofpetunias 13y ago

Posting pictures of your kids online is one thing. Giving those pictures to a service like Facebook is of an entire order altogether. One of them is about privacy, and there is a grey area. The other is exploiting children. Basically you're giving Facebook pictures of your kids as payment in return for a "free" service. People should be aware that when they do that it's not "sharing", it's selling.