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I am not going to do what you suggested. If you want to explain why you think Bart driving is skilled, hard to replace labor, that would be productive, but tell

I am not going to do what you suggested. If you want to explain why you think Bart driving is skilled, hard to replace labor, that would be productive, but telling me to change my career is not an argument. It is not exactly a revelation that people just starting out in a career get paid less than experienced folks, especially in labor markets controlled by unions.

nknighthb 13y ago
> I am not going to do what you suggested. Then what makes you think you can argue they're overpaid? > If you want to explain why you think Bart driving is skilled, hard to replace labor I know absolutely no one who has not gone through significant training who I would trust at the controls of a huge vehicle like a bus or train. I also don't know many people who want to drive around at night alone picking strangers up.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Same thing that makes you think you can argue they are underpaid. > I know absolutely no one ... How many people do you know who only have a high school diploma? Who have no other options that pay more than $60k/year?
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    Hmm... did I say they were underpaid? > How many people do you know who only have a high school diploma? My parents, all my grandparents, most of my aunts and uncles, most of my cousins. I would say "me", but that would be a lie, because I don't even have a high school diploma. Not sure about friends and acquaintances. Most of them are tech workers, so formal education rarely comes up. > Who have no other options that pay more than $60k/year? Lots of the people I mention, including myself, make or have in the past made more than $60k/year (at least inflation-adjusted). Pieces of paper from a broken educational system are not determinant of how much someone can or should make.
    - jamesaguilar 13y ago
      You implied that they should be paid enough to live in downtown SF, which I think is equivalent to claiming they should be paid more. If not, let's just assume I can come up with some convoluted reason why I'm not talking about their pay either, and we can just stop talking about it. > Pieces of paper from a broken educational system are not determinant of how much someone can or should make. Certainly agree with that. The demand for the work you can do and your ability to do the work with quality should be the main determinants. So I guess we'll see how much the city is willing to pay, and how far the BART workers are willing to push them before they just get replaced. Our discussion on the matter is kind of a non-factor.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        What I implied is that arguing they shouldn't is detached elitism. You're free to stop talking about anything you want at any time.
        jamesaguilar 13y ago
        Interesting. Let me get this straight. You claim folks who think bart workers shouldn't get paid more are detached elitists. But, you also aren't actually arguing they should get paid more. That seems like an untenable position to me.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        "Nonsense" is what the capitalists are spewing: "It's a good life" vs perceived market value. Stick to one or the other. Either it's sufficient that the market work it out, or quality of life matters. Argue one or the other, not both.
        jamesaguilar 13y ago
        Personally, I think that both should be weighed into the decision, but BART workers are way above average in terms of how their QoL is covered, and as a result should not have that optimized further considering their already over-market pay and the considerable cost to the taxpayer.

nknighthb 13y ago

> I am not going to do what you suggested. Then what makes you think you can argue they're overpaid? > If you want to explain why you think Bart driving is skilled, hard to replace labor I know absolutely no one who has not gone through significant training who I would trust at the controls of a huge vehicle like a bus or train. I also don't know many people who want to drive around at night alone picking strangers up.

jamesaguilar 13y ago
Same thing that makes you think you can argue they are underpaid. > I know absolutely no one ... How many people do you know who only have a high school diploma? Who have no other options that pay more than $60k/year?
- nknighthb 13y ago
  Hmm... did I say they were underpaid? > How many people do you know who only have a high school diploma? My parents, all my grandparents, most of my aunts and uncles, most of my cousins. I would say "me", but that would be a lie, because I don't even have a high school diploma. Not sure about friends and acquaintances. Most of them are tech workers, so formal education rarely comes up. > Who have no other options that pay more than $60k/year? Lots of the people I mention, including myself, make or have in the past made more than $60k/year (at least inflation-adjusted). Pieces of paper from a broken educational system are not determinant of how much someone can or should make.
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    You implied that they should be paid enough to live in downtown SF, which I think is equivalent to claiming they should be paid more. If not, let's just assume I can come up with some convoluted reason why I'm not talking about their pay either, and we can just stop talking about it. > Pieces of paper from a broken educational system are not determinant of how much someone can or should make. Certainly agree with that. The demand for the work you can do and your ability to do the work with quality should be the main determinants. So I guess we'll see how much the city is willing to pay, and how far the BART workers are willing to push them before they just get replaced. Our discussion on the matter is kind of a non-factor.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      What I implied is that arguing they shouldn't is detached elitism. You're free to stop talking about anything you want at any time.
      - jamesaguilar 13y ago
        Interesting. Let me get this straight. You claim folks who think bart workers shouldn't get paid more are detached elitists. But, you also aren't actually arguing they should get paid more. That seems like an untenable position to me.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        "Nonsense" is what the capitalists are spewing: "It's a good life" vs perceived market value. Stick to one or the other. Either it's sufficient that the market work it out, or quality of life matters. Argue one or the other, not both.
        jamesaguilar 13y ago
        Personally, I think that both should be weighed into the decision, but BART workers are way above average in terms of how their QoL is covered, and as a result should not have that optimized further considering their already over-market pay and the considerable cost to the taxpayer.