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I'm curious -- what do you like about Clojure that you don't like about F# and Haskell? Do you find Clojure's syntax easier to learn than F#'s or Haskell's, or

I'm curious -- what do you like about Clojure that you don't like about F# and Haskell? Do you find Clojure's syntax easier to learn than F#'s or Haskell's, or is there another feature that particularly draws you to Clojure?

lucian1900 13y ago
Clojure is closer to Python, thus more comfortable. The macros, persistent collections and core.async are a nice bonus. Also, in extreme cases I could relatively easily monkey-patch things, just as I can in Python. F# (and particularly Haskell) are one extra degree of separation away. I love useful type systems, but I haven't been able to practically use one so far. Typed Clojure looks like I could start using it piecemeal, but its type inference is very limited (much like Scala), so I'm not sure of its long-term usability.
- Peaker 13y ago
  Note that most functional languages, and definitely Haskell have persistent data structure libraries as that is the natural way to write data structures in those languages.
  - lucian1900 13y ago
    Sure, but Python doesn't, which was my point.
knz42 13y ago
I have a similar opinion as the commenter above: I like Clojure more than F# and Haskell. F# is no-go because of the .NET/Mono dependency. Haskell is no-go because of the community attitude. ML (the non-.NET F#) is an option; as well as Miranda (precursor to Haskell with less attitude). Sometimes these discussions forget to take the human side of things on board, which is really important for many applications and long-term projects.
- lucian1900 13y ago
  F# depending on Mono is no worse than Clojure depending on the JVM, really. The Haskell community is very friendly, actually. I've always received useful advice.
  - profquail 13y ago
    In addition, Mono has improved tremendously over the past 12-18 months since Xamarin has taken over the project. It's not yet in the category of some of the very highly-tuned JVM implementations (or the .NET CLR on Windows), but performance and support are plenty good enough for most applications.
- RussianCow 13y ago
  What don't you like about the Haskell "community attitude"? My brief encounter with the Haskell community was very positive, so I'm curious.
MBlume 13y ago
Macros

lucian1900 13y ago

Clojure is closer to Python, thus more comfortable. The macros, persistent collections and core.async are a nice bonus. Also, in extreme cases I could relatively easily monkey-patch things, just as I can in Python. F# (and particularly Haskell) are one extra degree of separation away. I love useful type systems, but I haven't been able to practically use one so far. Typed Clojure looks like I could start using it piecemeal, but its type inference is very limited (much like Scala), so I'm not sure of its long-term usability.

Peaker 13y ago
Note that most functional languages, and definitely Haskell have persistent data structure libraries as that is the natural way to write data structures in those languages.
- lucian1900 13y ago
  Sure, but Python doesn't, which was my point.

knz42 13y ago

I have a similar opinion as the commenter above: I like Clojure more than F# and Haskell. F# is no-go because of the .NET/Mono dependency. Haskell is no-go because of the community attitude. ML (the non-.NET F#) is an option; as well as Miranda (precursor to Haskell with less attitude). Sometimes these discussions forget to take the human side of things on board, which is really important for many applications and long-term projects.

lucian1900 13y ago
F# depending on Mono is no worse than Clojure depending on the JVM, really. The Haskell community is very friendly, actually. I've always received useful advice.
- profquail 13y ago
  In addition, Mono has improved tremendously over the past 12-18 months since Xamarin has taken over the project. It's not yet in the category of some of the very highly-tuned JVM implementations (or the .NET CLR on Windows), but performance and support are plenty good enough for most applications.
RussianCow 13y ago
What don't you like about the Haskell "community attitude"? My brief encounter with the Haskell community was very positive, so I'm curious.

MBlume 13y ago

Macros