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I don't know what I find more disturbing about your response - that you think having a hobby that involves sewing/cooking/gardening is akin to slavery, or your

by Jem 17y ago

I don't know what I find more disturbing about your response - that you think having a hobby that involves sewing/cooking/gardening is akin to slavery, or your assumption that only women are doing these things (not helped by the article, I guess).

Tichy 17y ago
The article is not talking about a hobby, but about making a living. Cooking and gardening are bad examples (not really "etsy" crafts like what the article was talking about), what I have in mind are those carpets from India. It just seems silly to me to work on a carpet for days, if a machine can produce the same thing in minutes. It just seemed to me that the only way such carpets can be produced is through slavery. To buy such carpets would encourage people to waste their time. There are such painters who try to copy photographs, which I would find equally depressing - just a waste of time. Unless their artistic message is exactly that, to make people think about what is a waste of time... (like the other artist who was only drawing small numbers on walls for years and years on end). The article said "Women, too, hunger for concrete, manual labor that has an element of individual agency and pleasure beyond the abstract, purely cerebral work found in the cubicle or corner office. It’s become satisfying again to sew, cook, and garden." So in that case I assumed the second sentence was referring to women. Also I do think the number of men who sew is very small (unless they are professional tailors). As for making a living, OK, I know many people doing pottery, but I am still not sure how it works. How long does it take them to produce one cup? Can they do it in 5 minutes?
- Jem 17y ago
  I know a lot of etsy sellers (some are men), and their passion for selling their produce is their hobby - what they make, what they craft, that is what they enjoy doing. They certainly don't see it as slavery. > It just seems silly to me to work on a carpet for days, if a machine can produce the same thing in minutes. For the same reason that a HNer might work on a startup for days/months/years even though something similar might already exist. I don't see it as my place to judge whether or not they're wasting their time (nor do I see it as slavery).
  - Tichy 17y ago
    "what they make, what they craft, that is what they enjoy doing." OK, but they don't do it for a living? Also I think there is a misundertanding. I can understand art and creativity, and from the article I take it that etsy encourages individual items. What I don't like about the "handmade" label is the production of repetitive things that should better be left to machines. Maybe some people enjoy creating 100 baskets that look the same, or 100 cups (do you know such people/men?). But how high can their pay realistically be? If it is not slavery, maybe it is extremely low paid work. "For the same reason that a HNer might work on a startup for days/months/years even though something similar might already exist." I would think a startup is by definition to try to create something new. "I don't see it as my place to judge whether or not they're wasting their time (nor do I see it as slavery)." But you do have a problem with me considering certain things to be a waste of time?
    - Jem 17y ago
      > OK, but they don't do it for a living? At least one off the top of my head uses it as her sole income. > Maybe some people enjoy creating 100 baskets that look the same, or 100 cups I'm sorry, I didn't see in the article where it was saying that? Perhaps I misread somewhere. My experience with etsy, even with sellers who make and sell a lot of goods, is that each piece is different in some way. > I would think a startup is by definition to try to create something new. Really? I see plenty of "please review my startup" posts here that seem to offer a regurgitated version of someone else's idea. > But you do have a problem with me considering certain things to be a waste of time? It's your prerogative to view whatever you like as a waste of time (I know that having this pointless debate is wasting my time, and yet I go on...) I just don't see the need to compare it to slavery.
      - Tichy 17y ago
        "My experience with etsy, even with sellers who make and sell a lot of goods, is that each piece is different in some way." Yeah as I said, it is a misunderstanding. I am not talking about the arty crafts such as the etsy stuff. So much for pointless discussion.

by Jem 17y ago

Tichy 17y ago

The article is not talking about a hobby, but about making a living. Cooking and gardening are bad examples (not really "etsy" crafts like what the article was talking about), what I have in mind are those carpets from India. It just seems silly to me to work on a carpet for days, if a machine can produce the same thing in minutes. It just seemed to me that the only way such carpets can be produced is through slavery. To buy such carpets would encourage people to waste their time. There are such painters who try to copy photographs, which I would find equally depressing - just a waste of time. Unless their artistic message is exactly that, to make people think about what is a waste of time... (like the other artist who was only drawing small numbers on walls for years and years on end). The article said "Women, too, hunger for concrete, manual labor that has an element of individual agency and pleasure beyond the abstract, purely cerebral work found in the cubicle or corner office. It’s become satisfying again to sew, cook, and garden." So in that case I assumed the second sentence was referring to women. Also I do think the number of men who sew is very small (unless they are professional tailors). As for making a living, OK, I know many people doing pottery, but I am still not sure how it works. How long does it take them to produce one cup? Can they do it in 5 minutes?

Jem 17y ago
I know a lot of etsy sellers (some are men), and their passion for selling their produce is their hobby - what they make, what they craft, that is what they enjoy doing. They certainly don't see it as slavery. > It just seems silly to me to work on a carpet for days, if a machine can produce the same thing in minutes. For the same reason that a HNer might work on a startup for days/months/years even though something similar might already exist. I don't see it as my place to judge whether or not they're wasting their time (nor do I see it as slavery).
- Tichy 17y ago
  "what they make, what they craft, that is what they enjoy doing." OK, but they don't do it for a living? Also I think there is a misundertanding. I can understand art and creativity, and from the article I take it that etsy encourages individual items. What I don't like about the "handmade" label is the production of repetitive things that should better be left to machines. Maybe some people enjoy creating 100 baskets that look the same, or 100 cups (do you know such people/men?). But how high can their pay realistically be? If it is not slavery, maybe it is extremely low paid work. "For the same reason that a HNer might work on a startup for days/months/years even though something similar might already exist." I would think a startup is by definition to try to create something new. "I don't see it as my place to judge whether or not they're wasting their time (nor do I see it as slavery)." But you do have a problem with me considering certain things to be a waste of time?
  - Jem 17y ago
    > OK, but they don't do it for a living? At least one off the top of my head uses it as her sole income. > Maybe some people enjoy creating 100 baskets that look the same, or 100 cups I'm sorry, I didn't see in the article where it was saying that? Perhaps I misread somewhere. My experience with etsy, even with sellers who make and sell a lot of goods, is that each piece is different in some way. > I would think a startup is by definition to try to create something new. Really? I see plenty of "please review my startup" posts here that seem to offer a regurgitated version of someone else's idea. > But you do have a problem with me considering certain things to be a waste of time? It's your prerogative to view whatever you like as a waste of time (I know that having this pointless debate is wasting my time, and yet I go on...) I just don't see the need to compare it to slavery.
    - Tichy 17y ago
      "My experience with etsy, even with sellers who make and sell a lot of goods, is that each piece is different in some way." Yeah as I said, it is a misunderstanding. I am not talking about the arty crafts such as the etsy stuff. So much for pointless discussion.