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As with the answers above I see that the divergence in opinions is actually due to a different understanding of the word genetics. To me genetics refers to whic

As with the answers above I see that the divergence in opinions is actually due to a different understanding of the word genetics. To me genetics refers to whichever properties or features a given person has that make him of her different from anyone else. "these "gifted" people I mostly recognized that they had an inherent interest in the problem area and had done a substantial amount of self-study." What decides what a given person is interested in? Genetics. What grants a person the kind of introspection needed to perform "a substantial amount of self-study"? also genetics. Genetics decides your height, weight, the fact that you believe in God or not, your interests, amount dedication, attention span and every other aspect that makes up whatever form of success you have in mind.

kgarten 13y ago
again you make it very easy ... (sorry I have the feeling you are trolling me ...) "What decides what a given person is interested in? Genetics." Really, so it's genetics that determines if I'm interested in Computer Science or any other topic? I highly doubt that ... In my case I believe it has more to do with very gifted teachers I had the luck of meeting that spawned my interest. You believe you can tell the interest of people by looking at their genes? (There several examples of twins with the same genetic material who show complementary interests, talents etc.). So genetics determines your weight ... tell that to the people living in the 3rd world. There way also environmental influences that determine your life and at least for me the ruling is still out how much is in the genes and how much is due to the environment. You know that our environment/food etc. can change our genes ...
- cliveowen 13y ago
  I'm not trolling at all, I'm serious and I don't understand how all of you can deny what I'm saying. I'm not proposing a theory I'm just laying out verifiable facts. First of all, there exist people with similar genetics, like twins, but there aren't two people exactly identical, biologically speaking. We call people individuals because everyone is unique. Take actors Shawn Ashmore and Aaron Ashmore: the former is 1.83m the twin is 1.80m. Why can you accept that kind of difference in height but you can't accept that kind of difference (or higher) in any other trait? Like intelligence. The last point you make is rather moot. There's no doubt nutrition impacts weight as well as general development in a living being, but given that changes spawned by biological processes are immutable and directly related to one's genetic makeup (think immune system or metabolism) those too have to be put on the same level as genetic mutations.
  - kgarten 13y ago
    If you know scientific process you should know that there are no verifiable facts. We can just be a little less "wrong" than the people before us ;) No, I don't deny the influence of genetics on intelligence and the like, however I don't believe that it outweighs teaching. (I had the experience when our math class was way advanced compared and our A-level was easy due to the teaching methods of a very talented and engaged math teacher ...). There are tons of other examples, if you give an average person with average IQ the breathing room and spark their interest they can become an expert in any field (that's what I believe ...). They might not become a Goedel or Turing, yet that's something else ... Do you say that it's in our genes if we understand a particular subject (e.g. algebra, differential equations ...) or not? If you don't receive any formal training in anything or get the wrong teaching, sorry than genetics won't help you. The type of training and teaching are more important than your genetics when it comes to contributions to the sciences (assuming no disabilities). I've seen this over and over ... at elementary school, high school and university. There are studies that show that the IQ of a child for example is to 1/4 determined by their family environment and deteriorates rapidly with social risk factors. e.g. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.1993.tb02896.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.1993.... The problem is that intelligence is a bit more complicated than you want it to be ;) (and maybe that your genes are not made out to understand what I'm trying to say :D
seriouslyjoking 13y ago
"Genetics decides your height, weight, the fact that you believe in God or not, your interests, amount dedication, attention span and every other aspect that makes up whatever form of success you have in mind." Does any rational person actually believe this?
- cliveowen 13y ago
  How could you argue otherwise? Who we are and what we do is a product of our genetic material. Your potential, your limits, that's decided by your genes. That is undeniable.
  - seriouslyjoking 13y ago
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    - cliveowen 13y ago
      You might want to check with a biology professor or, even better, a geneticist. You might find out you were wrong all along. I know it's hard to accept the fact that we're biologically limited in our capabilities and people have a knee-jerk reaction when put in front of their own boundaries, but that doesn't make you right, and it sure as hell doesn't change the impact of genes on our lives or the meaning of words.
      - seriouslyjoking 13y ago
        And it surely doesn't stop you from making patently absurd pronouncements. "Impact" and "decided by" imply very different concepts.
        cliveowen 13y ago
        I don't know what your academic studies are, but you're showing a profound illiteracy in even the most basic concepts of biology. The real problem here lies in the complete misunderstanding of biology and related terms by people, fuelled by flawed media depictions.

kgarten 13y ago

again you make it very easy ... (sorry I have the feeling you are trolling me ...) "What decides what a given person is interested in? Genetics." Really, so it's genetics that determines if I'm interested in Computer Science or any other topic? I highly doubt that ... In my case I believe it has more to do with very gifted teachers I had the luck of meeting that spawned my interest. You believe you can tell the interest of people by looking at their genes? (There several examples of twins with the same genetic material who show complementary interests, talents etc.). So genetics determines your weight ... tell that to the people living in the 3rd world. There way also environmental influences that determine your life and at least for me the ruling is still out how much is in the genes and how much is due to the environment. You know that our environment/food etc. can change our genes ...

cliveowen 13y ago
I'm not trolling at all, I'm serious and I don't understand how all of you can deny what I'm saying. I'm not proposing a theory I'm just laying out verifiable facts. First of all, there exist people with similar genetics, like twins, but there aren't two people exactly identical, biologically speaking. We call people individuals because everyone is unique. Take actors Shawn Ashmore and Aaron Ashmore: the former is 1.83m the twin is 1.80m. Why can you accept that kind of difference in height but you can't accept that kind of difference (or higher) in any other trait? Like intelligence. The last point you make is rather moot. There's no doubt nutrition impacts weight as well as general development in a living being, but given that changes spawned by biological processes are immutable and directly related to one's genetic makeup (think immune system or metabolism) those too have to be put on the same level as genetic mutations.
- kgarten 13y ago
  If you know scientific process you should know that there are no verifiable facts. We can just be a little less "wrong" than the people before us ;) No, I don't deny the influence of genetics on intelligence and the like, however I don't believe that it outweighs teaching. (I had the experience when our math class was way advanced compared and our A-level was easy due to the teaching methods of a very talented and engaged math teacher ...). There are tons of other examples, if you give an average person with average IQ the breathing room and spark their interest they can become an expert in any field (that's what I believe ...). They might not become a Goedel or Turing, yet that's something else ... Do you say that it's in our genes if we understand a particular subject (e.g. algebra, differential equations ...) or not? If you don't receive any formal training in anything or get the wrong teaching, sorry than genetics won't help you. The type of training and teaching are more important than your genetics when it comes to contributions to the sciences (assuming no disabilities). I've seen this over and over ... at elementary school, high school and university. There are studies that show that the IQ of a child for example is to 1/4 determined by their family environment and deteriorates rapidly with social risk factors. e.g. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.1993.tb02896.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.1993.... The problem is that intelligence is a bit more complicated than you want it to be ;) (and maybe that your genes are not made out to understand what I'm trying to say :D

seriouslyjoking 13y ago

"Genetics decides your height, weight, the fact that you believe in God or not, your interests, amount dedication, attention span and every other aspect that makes up whatever form of success you have in mind." Does any rational person actually believe this?

cliveowen 13y ago
How could you argue otherwise? Who we are and what we do is a product of our genetic material. Your potential, your limits, that's decided by your genes. That is undeniable.
- seriouslyjoking 13y ago
  You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
  - cliveowen 13y ago
    You might want to check with a biology professor or, even better, a geneticist. You might find out you were wrong all along. I know it's hard to accept the fact that we're biologically limited in our capabilities and people have a knee-jerk reaction when put in front of their own boundaries, but that doesn't make you right, and it sure as hell doesn't change the impact of genes on our lives or the meaning of words.
    - seriouslyjoking 13y ago
      And it surely doesn't stop you from making patently absurd pronouncements. "Impact" and "decided by" imply very different concepts.
      - cliveowen 13y ago
        I don't know what your academic studies are, but you're showing a profound illiteracy in even the most basic concepts of biology. The real problem here lies in the complete misunderstanding of biology and related terms by people, fuelled by flawed media depictions.