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Arguing that student genetics have any substantial influence on student success is a load of bullshit. It's the same argument that has been used in favor of or

by PLejeck 13y ago

Arguing that student genetics have any substantial influence on student success is a load of bullshit. It's the same argument that has been used in favor of organized eugenics, and, just to fulfill Godwin's Law, also used in favor of the holocaust. But seriously, this is detrimental to improvements in education. All this will do is push us backwards, and delay actual improvements. EDIT: I guess I should've been more clear: I was being sarcastic with my comparisons to hitler, for the sake of fulfilling Godwin's Law early and being done with that stupid.

PeterisP 13y ago
I don't know how much influence does genetics have on student success. There can be plausible arguments that it's 50/50 nature/nurture, 20/80 or 80/20. However, it definitely is bullshit to claim "It's the same argument that has been used in favor of organized eugenics, and, just to fulfill Godwin's Law, also used in favor of the holocaust." as any evidence whatsoever about what nature/nurture proportion is the true one.
- PLejeck 13y ago
  Okay yeah it was rather bullshit to say that, but part of me just wanted to fulfill Godwin's Law nice and early and get that out of the way. Anyways, it's hard to argue that genetics control anything in humans very heavily: evidence shows that almost anything genetic can be overridden by later events, and there's so much variance as it is. And not to mention the fact that gene expression is affected by environmental factors!
msohcw 13y ago
However, to argue the converse is just as difficult. Can we really reject the hypothesis that genetics has an effect on a person's mental ability? On student success? In China, researchers are looking at mapping the genomes of 'geniuses' to look for potential genes that impact intelligence. (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/genetics-of-iq/ http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/genetics-of-iq/) While, you argue from a point of pathos, that is that pursuing such genetics-based arguments of ability is dangerous and leads to dangerous situations, it is important to consider that with increasing knowledge of genetics, it is possible that we will find certain genes with impacts on knowledge and ability. I mean, even now, we know at least of genetic bases to diseases that negatively impact intelligence. Who is to say the converse won't happen? In a question of science and ethics, I would argue that it is better that we pursue, to a) not end up in lopsided world power (imagine if only China were to successfully pursue genetic bases for improving education) and b) look at potential ways of improving education across the board. If we do know a genetic bases, that may allow us to better target education. Ability is clearly myriad and manifold, and likely impossible to fully be determined by genetics. There will still be better objective measures than genetics. To shove aside genetics effects on student success just on potential ethical ramifications might not be a very good idea.
- fit2rule 13y ago
  The point is, how does it help a person improve themselves if the entire society is designed to reinforce the view that you can't help being dumb, because your Dad was, so therefore .. why try? Genetics isn't good for anyone but bigots and haters. There is absolutely nothing useful in the Genetics movement for the common man - fact is, the entire movement to categorize humans genetically is a corporate one, with the intent of providing insight into the nature of the consumers the corporations paying for these studies wish to acquire as willing - or even unwilling - subjects in their empire.
- PLejeck 13y ago
  I wouldn't say it has no effect, it's just so minor that it would be silly to base our educational plans on it.
auggierose 13y ago
I don't think it is detrimental to improving education by taking into account the particular strengths of each individual child. This is why the use of computers in education is so important in my opinion, so that you can individualise each child's learning experience.
- PLejeck 13y ago
  To imply that strengths are determined by genetics is to ignore the fact that genetics are naught but a starting point. Humans are just complex chemical reactions. Yes, genetics determine the beginning state, but the experiences determine the future.
_random_ 13y ago
When you say "bullshit" do you mean it's immoral or that it has been disproved by science?

by PLejeck 13y ago

PeterisP 13y ago

I don't know how much influence does genetics have on student success. There can be plausible arguments that it's 50/50 nature/nurture, 20/80 or 80/20. However, it definitely is bullshit to claim "It's the same argument that has been used in favor of organized eugenics, and, just to fulfill Godwin's Law, also used in favor of the holocaust." as any evidence whatsoever about what nature/nurture proportion is the true one.

PLejeck 13y ago
Okay yeah it was rather bullshit to say that, but part of me just wanted to fulfill Godwin's Law nice and early and get that out of the way. Anyways, it's hard to argue that genetics control anything in humans very heavily: evidence shows that almost anything genetic can be overridden by later events, and there's so much variance as it is. And not to mention the fact that gene expression is affected by environmental factors!

msohcw 13y ago

However, to argue the converse is just as difficult. Can we really reject the hypothesis that genetics has an effect on a person's mental ability? On student success? In China, researchers are looking at mapping the genomes of 'geniuses' to look for potential genes that impact intelligence. (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/genetics-of-iq/ http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/genetics-of-iq/) While, you argue from a point of pathos, that is that pursuing such genetics-based arguments of ability is dangerous and leads to dangerous situations, it is important to consider that with increasing knowledge of genetics, it is possible that we will find certain genes with impacts on knowledge and ability. I mean, even now, we know at least of genetic bases to diseases that negatively impact intelligence. Who is to say the converse won't happen? In a question of science and ethics, I would argue that it is better that we pursue, to a) not end up in lopsided world power (imagine if only China were to successfully pursue genetic bases for improving education) and b) look at potential ways of improving education across the board. If we do know a genetic bases, that may allow us to better target education. Ability is clearly myriad and manifold, and likely impossible to fully be determined by genetics. There will still be better objective measures than genetics. To shove aside genetics effects on student success just on potential ethical ramifications might not be a very good idea.

fit2rule 13y ago
The point is, how does it help a person improve themselves if the entire society is designed to reinforce the view that you can't help being dumb, because your Dad was, so therefore .. why try? Genetics isn't good for anyone but bigots and haters. There is absolutely nothing useful in the Genetics movement for the common man - fact is, the entire movement to categorize humans genetically is a corporate one, with the intent of providing insight into the nature of the consumers the corporations paying for these studies wish to acquire as willing - or even unwilling - subjects in their empire.
PLejeck 13y ago
I wouldn't say it has no effect, it's just so minor that it would be silly to base our educational plans on it.

auggierose 13y ago

I don't think it is detrimental to improving education by taking into account the particular strengths of each individual child. This is why the use of computers in education is so important in my opinion, so that you can individualise each child's learning experience.

PLejeck 13y ago
To imply that strengths are determined by genetics is to ignore the fact that genetics are naught but a starting point. Humans are just complex chemical reactions. Yes, genetics determine the beginning state, but the experiences determine the future.

_random_ 13y ago

When you say "bullshit" do you mean it's immoral or that it has been disproved by science?