9 ms·

I can offer you an alternative, rather more cynical, explanation as to why it's such a popular class: it's rated as one of the easiest. Not only, as the articl

by objclxt 13y ago

I can offer you an alternative, rather more cynical, explanation as to why it's such a popular class: it's rated as one of the easiest. Not only, as the article mentions, does it fulfill a core requirement, but it's also rated as one of the easiest courses going in the student evaluations. It scores a 1.58/5 for workload, and a 2.43/5 for difficulty, both below the benchmark for the Gen Ed department (which itself is pretty low). I'm sure many people taking the class have a genuine interest, but from my experience a significant number of students spend a lot of time finding core/gen-ed classes that are light on work (this is especially true if you've left your requirement to the last minute to complete). (I'd link to the evaluation data, but you need a harvard.edu login, so you'll have to take my word for it). Edit: Turns out the student paper backs this theory up - http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/10/9/hey-atlantic-5-real-reasons-to-take-er-18/ http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/10/9/hey-atlantic-5-r...

nostromo 13y ago
When I was in college, I noticed that I was allowed to use 3 credits of physical education towards my elective credits. However, none were offered at the school, so I took yoga at a community college and transferred the credits in. Turns out I discovered I really like yoga. :)
- Moto7451 13y ago
  I did the same thing. I could take Chicano studies, Asian American studies, African American Studies, or three Karate classes to fulfill a requirement. The first three options were known to be difficult but not particularly deep and students alleged that you would get a bad grade if your political views didn't match the professors' views. I took the latter most option and had way more fun.
auctiontheory 13y ago
Excellent example of Occam's razor.
- eruditely 13y ago
  It definitely wasn't an application of Occam's razor. Sigh, what is everyone's obsessions with retrofitting a small amount of logical tools everywhere?
  - NoPiece 13y ago
    Confirmation bias?
    - kaoD 13y ago
      I see what you did there.
  - trentmb 13y ago
    > Sigh, what is everyone's obsessions with retrofitting a small amount of logical tools everywhere? It makes them feel smart. I'm going to put my head through a wall next time I see someone type 'fallacy.'
    - Sagat 13y ago
      Wow, what's up with the ad hominem, bro?
      - steveklabnik 13y ago
        Not ad hominem, they didn't say they were wrong because they feel smart. Sigh.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    My understanding of Occam's razor is "use the simplest explanation that fits the facts." The implied question is "Why do Harvard students take this class?" Rather than resort to philosophical mumbo-jumbo (as the article does) about Harvard students feeling a yearning to improve their overprivileged existence, the simplest explanation is that students take the class because it offers an easy A. QED
001sky 13y ago
Didn't they just have a huge cheating scandal? I mean why kind of journo is on the prowl (of his own volition) poking around these kind of corners in a university? If the body leads, the mind will follow. The smallest actions have the most profound ramifications. Decisions are made from the heart. Seeing how they just launched another $6B fundraiser...perhaps they were getting pushback from the type of students that were making the press for all the wrong reasons.
shuzchen 13y ago
Here's another theory (not saying yours isn't possibly right): the Chinese government has an agenda involving more and more people studying Chinese language, culture, and traditions. I'm not insinuating any malicious intent here; as any sensible country would they want to promote trade with other nations, and trade goes a lot smoothly if the other party speaks your language/knows your culture/has a connection. One manifestation of this agenda is the Confucius Institutes that have spawned hundreds of branches around the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute). They're pretty nice organizations: they run programs, give funding for projects, give scholarships (heck, my web development job during college was paid partly through the local CI). All in all promote Chinese language/culture, though all pretty much funded by the PRC.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  It makes sense. They have dominated the culinary world by making their food ubiquitous! Now they want to dominate the philosophical world. The fiends. I knew it! Palpatine's behind it all.
- Sagat 13y ago
  One advantage of this policy for foreigners is that it's remarkably easy to get into the best Chinese universities (even Tsinghua) compared to the effort the average chinese student has to expend to achieve the same goal. Source: a visiting professor from China
  - notahacker 13y ago
    There's no shortage of Chinese overseas students at Western universities, many of which have a strong financial incentive to accept more overseas students (they can usually charge higher fees) even if their ability to read and write English lags behind the average European student. The resulting cultural cross-pollination is usually likely to be a good thing...
- mhurron 13y ago
  25 years ago you would have written the above, but with simply replacing Chinese with Japanese. Lets fast forward to now and see how that worked out. Nope, still speaking English.
cylinder 13y ago
Why would someone kill themselves in order to get into Harvard only to slack their way through it doing the easiest rated classes?
- GuiA 13y ago
  Have you ever been 18?
- phaus 13y ago
  Quite a few people believe that general education requirements are a waste of time. Therefore, they pick easy classes for the things that have nothing to do with their major.
- objclxt 13y ago
  Because Harvard awards degrees based on a GPA cut-off that ensures only 50% of the graduating class get Latin honors. So if you were a Harvard student who wanted to get Latin honors (...of which there are more than a few) it's in your best interests to take the easiest general-education (core) courses to ensure you have more breathing space for studies in your major. I Head TA'd a core curriculum class at Harvard, and you would be amazed at the number of seniors who e-mailed me once grades came out begging to be bumped up as it meant their GPA would be pushed over the honors cut-off. This was one reason why the Harvard cheating scandal last year was so widespread: the course fulfilled a core requirement, and it had a reputation for being very easy, hence hundreds of people took it.
  - gcb0 13y ago
    also, answering the grandparent post and expanding on the parent answer... the fact that person is in Harvard already proves he/she understands how to play with grade averages to begin with. gpa is not always directly proportional to hard work.
    - judk 13y ago
      Not really, high school GPA means taking all the AP/advanced classes -- not the easiest ones, ALL the ones.
mlchild 13y ago
I took the class because it was supposed to be easy and satisfied (then-core) requirements. But I still regularly consider Confucian, Mohist, and, heck, even Han Feizi(an?) philosophy and their applications to daily life. Chinese philosophy nails the importance of the quotidian (to quote the article) in shaping one's world view. It's akin to PG arguing that what you think about in the shower matters or that living with your cofounders is optimal. I found it enriching. In the end, isn't the point of a good education—to get you to see the world differently, even if it's more superficial lures that draw you in?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - corin_ 13y ago
    It's fine to think that of him, but at least have the balls to say it from your normal account.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- Sagat 13y ago
  Be honest. Are you actually going to use those diluted feel-good aphorisms to shape your life?
  - ogig 13y ago
    "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself" You can shape an awesome life for you and others using this "diluted feel-good aphorism".
    - Sagat 13y ago
      That's not a feel-good aphorism. That's a principle that is at the core of religions and philosophies practiced by billions. It's not universally applied, but people are actively trying to teach it.
oskarth 13y ago
While that is more likely the correct answer to the question posed in the headline, the article itself is more about what the students learn and how it affects them. Putting The Analects into practice is pretty remarkable, but a more honest headline would not be as "clicky".
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
How is that a cynical explanation? Gen-Ed requirements are stupid, particularly in the way they require you to take low-level survey courses marked explicitly as Gen-Eds rather than more in-depth courses. They create people with shallow educations excepting one (maybe two) topics of "in-major" depth rather than graduates with a broad polymathic education.

by objclxt 13y ago

nostromo 13y ago

When I was in college, I noticed that I was allowed to use 3 credits of physical education towards my elective credits. However, none were offered at the school, so I took yoga at a community college and transferred the credits in. Turns out I discovered I really like yoga. :)

Moto7451 13y ago
I did the same thing. I could take Chicano studies, Asian American studies, African American Studies, or three Karate classes to fulfill a requirement. The first three options were known to be difficult but not particularly deep and students alleged that you would get a bad grade if your political views didn't match the professors' views. I took the latter most option and had way more fun.

auctiontheory 13y ago

Excellent example of Occam's razor.

eruditely 13y ago
It definitely wasn't an application of Occam's razor. Sigh, what is everyone's obsessions with retrofitting a small amount of logical tools everywhere?
- NoPiece 13y ago
  Confirmation bias?
  - kaoD 13y ago
    I see what you did there.
- trentmb 13y ago
  > Sigh, what is everyone's obsessions with retrofitting a small amount of logical tools everywhere? It makes them feel smart. I'm going to put my head through a wall next time I see someone type 'fallacy.'
  - Sagat 13y ago
    Wow, what's up with the ad hominem, bro?
    - steveklabnik 13y ago
      Not ad hominem, they didn't say they were wrong because they feel smart. Sigh.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  My understanding of Occam's razor is "use the simplest explanation that fits the facts." The implied question is "Why do Harvard students take this class?" Rather than resort to philosophical mumbo-jumbo (as the article does) about Harvard students feeling a yearning to improve their overprivileged existence, the simplest explanation is that students take the class because it offers an easy A. QED

001sky 13y ago

Didn't they just have a huge cheating scandal? I mean why kind of journo is on the prowl (of his own volition) poking around these kind of corners in a university? If the body leads, the mind will follow. The smallest actions have the most profound ramifications. Decisions are made from the heart. Seeing how they just launched another $6B fundraiser...perhaps they were getting pushback from the type of students that were making the press for all the wrong reasons.

shuzchen 13y ago

Here's another theory (not saying yours isn't possibly right): the Chinese government has an agenda involving more and more people studying Chinese language, culture, and traditions. I'm not insinuating any malicious intent here; as any sensible country would they want to promote trade with other nations, and trade goes a lot smoothly if the other party speaks your language/knows your culture/has a connection. One manifestation of this agenda is the Confucius Institutes that have spawned hundreds of branches around the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute). They're pretty nice organizations: they run programs, give funding for projects, give scholarships (heck, my web development job during college was paid partly through the local CI). All in all promote Chinese language/culture, though all pretty much funded by the PRC.

Ygg2 13y ago
It makes sense. They have dominated the culinary world by making their food ubiquitous! Now they want to dominate the philosophical world. The fiends. I knew it! Palpatine's behind it all.
Sagat 13y ago
One advantage of this policy for foreigners is that it's remarkably easy to get into the best Chinese universities (even Tsinghua) compared to the effort the average chinese student has to expend to achieve the same goal. Source: a visiting professor from China
- notahacker 13y ago
  There's no shortage of Chinese overseas students at Western universities, many of which have a strong financial incentive to accept more overseas students (they can usually charge higher fees) even if their ability to read and write English lags behind the average European student. The resulting cultural cross-pollination is usually likely to be a good thing...
mhurron 13y ago
25 years ago you would have written the above, but with simply replacing Chinese with Japanese. Lets fast forward to now and see how that worked out. Nope, still speaking English.

cylinder 13y ago

Why would someone kill themselves in order to get into Harvard only to slack their way through it doing the easiest rated classes?

GuiA 13y ago
Have you ever been 18?
phaus 13y ago
Quite a few people believe that general education requirements are a waste of time. Therefore, they pick easy classes for the things that have nothing to do with their major.
objclxt 13y ago
Because Harvard awards degrees based on a GPA cut-off that ensures only 50% of the graduating class get Latin honors. So if you were a Harvard student who wanted to get Latin honors (...of which there are more than a few) it's in your best interests to take the easiest general-education (core) courses to ensure you have more breathing space for studies in your major. I Head TA'd a core curriculum class at Harvard, and you would be amazed at the number of seniors who e-mailed me once grades came out begging to be bumped up as it meant their GPA would be pushed over the honors cut-off. This was one reason why the Harvard cheating scandal last year was so widespread: the course fulfilled a core requirement, and it had a reputation for being very easy, hence hundreds of people took it.
- gcb0 13y ago
  also, answering the grandparent post and expanding on the parent answer... the fact that person is in Harvard already proves he/she understands how to play with grade averages to begin with. gpa is not always directly proportional to hard work.
  - judk 13y ago
    Not really, high school GPA means taking all the AP/advanced classes -- not the easiest ones, ALL the ones.

mlchild 13y ago

I took the class because it was supposed to be easy and satisfied (then-core) requirements. But I still regularly consider Confucian, Mohist, and, heck, even Han Feizi(an?) philosophy and their applications to daily life. Chinese philosophy nails the importance of the quotidian (to quote the article) in shaping one's world view. It's akin to PG arguing that what you think about in the shower matters or that living with your cofounders is optimal. I found it enriching. In the end, isn't the point of a good education—to get you to see the world differently, even if it's more superficial lures that draw you in?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- corin_ 13y ago
  It's fine to think that of him, but at least have the balls to say it from your normal account.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
Sagat 13y ago
Be honest. Are you actually going to use those diluted feel-good aphorisms to shape your life?
- ogig 13y ago
  "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself" You can shape an awesome life for you and others using this "diluted feel-good aphorism".
  - Sagat 13y ago
    That's not a feel-good aphorism. That's a principle that is at the core of religions and philosophies practiced by billions. It's not universally applied, but people are actively trying to teach it.

oskarth 13y ago

While that is more likely the correct answer to the question posed in the headline, the article itself is more about what the students learn and how it affects them. Putting The Analects into practice is pretty remarkable, but a more honest headline would not be as "clicky".

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

How is that a cynical explanation? Gen-Ed requirements are stupid, particularly in the way they require you to take low-level survey courses marked explicitly as Gen-Eds rather than more in-depth courses. They create people with shallow educations excepting one (maybe two) topics of "in-major" depth rather than graduates with a broad polymathic education.