4 ms·

Why has she not reported this to the police? Why did HR not do it also? Sexual assault is defined in law, and many people are (rightly) convicted and imprisoned

Why has she not reported this to the police? Why did HR not do it also? Sexual assault is defined in law, and many people are (rightly) convicted and imprisoned over these serious offences every year. Justine is not averse to talking about the issue with strangers over the Internet; why is the law any different? In order to secure an arrest, the police need to be satisfied a crime has occurred (multiple witnesses are usually a good way to ascertain, for which there are at least two). For a conviction, a jury needs to be satisfied. The best way to do this? With evidence and witnesses. Even with two witnesses to this case who have come out publicly, no doubt the bartenders can be found too (location, time, staff time sheets). It's highly likely there is CCTV footage too, particularly on the bar itself. Is this genuine? I say that because I was not there, did not witness it, and do not know any of the people involved; including their judgement under drugs (alcohol) and their truthfulness. If this is genuine, why not use the full force of the law to bring a criminal to justice?

chris_wot 13y ago
It's often very hard for a victim to report a sexual assault. I hope she does, but you can't force someone to.
- volvelle 13y ago
  That is simply not the case. This is America, not Africa. There are scores of charities and organisations that can help. With some cursory Googling: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/legal-information http://www.rainn.org/get-information/legal-information. The author is happy to broadcast their account of this alleged assault to the public, so I don't think they'd have an issue reporting it to the authorities with the help of a charity. Statute of limitations is a few years on this so there is still time. If you've nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. This cuts both ways in a court of law, and the claims of an accuser are seldom taken at face value without reliable independent witness. It is innocent until proven guilty, so that the facts of the case can be used to ascertain guilt. If the author really cares about justice, about women in IT, about sending a message, then they will do the right thing and prosecute. Unless of course the author is lying (wouldn't be the first time it has happened in a sexual assault case)...
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    I'm not saying that their are mechanisms in place for reporting. I'm saying that its often hard for the victim to seek help in the first place.
    - volvelle 13y ago
      See earlier link to one of the numerous charities that explicitly support female victims of sexual assault. Is it too hard for someone in tech to Google 'Sexual Support $location'?
      - chris_wot 13y ago
        It's not hard. The victim needs to be able to in the first place. Often they feel ashamed, which is crazy, sometimes they blame themselves even though its not their fault. That's the point I'm making.
        volvelle 13y ago
        And it's moot - if the author is telling the truth. The author is not ashamed to very publicly make these (as yet) unsubstantiated claims. I assume talking to an abuse charity in private, who help with a police prosecution, causes less shame. The only reason I can think why someone would not go to the police is because independent witnesses (see earlier references to CCTV, the likely sober bartenders over drinking buddies) would not back up a claim. This was a crowded bar, surrounded by many people. I can only surmise that the reason they have not sought a prosecution is because they are lying/misleading, and they know they will be caught out.
        volvelle 13y ago
        EDIT: Having let the furore subside a little, and after reading some more of the numerous comments and articles, "lying/misleading" is the wrong choice of words. Although I do not buy that the accusers DUI and destructive behaviour are solely caused by this incident, I do not think the author is malicious in their intent. Extremely sexualised behaviour led to the alleged assaulter going too far. He lost his job as a result, but this was not a criminal offence: HR didn't file a police report, and neither did the alleged victim. No-one else did either. Embarrassing? Yes. Uncomfortable? Yes. Criminal? No.

chris_wot 13y ago

It's often very hard for a victim to report a sexual assault. I hope she does, but you can't force someone to.

volvelle 13y ago
That is simply not the case. This is America, not Africa. There are scores of charities and organisations that can help. With some cursory Googling: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/legal-information http://www.rainn.org/get-information/legal-information. The author is happy to broadcast their account of this alleged assault to the public, so I don't think they'd have an issue reporting it to the authorities with the help of a charity. Statute of limitations is a few years on this so there is still time. If you've nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. This cuts both ways in a court of law, and the claims of an accuser are seldom taken at face value without reliable independent witness. It is innocent until proven guilty, so that the facts of the case can be used to ascertain guilt. If the author really cares about justice, about women in IT, about sending a message, then they will do the right thing and prosecute. Unless of course the author is lying (wouldn't be the first time it has happened in a sexual assault case)...
- chris_wot 13y ago
  I'm not saying that their are mechanisms in place for reporting. I'm saying that its often hard for the victim to seek help in the first place.
  - volvelle 13y ago
    See earlier link to one of the numerous charities that explicitly support female victims of sexual assault. Is it too hard for someone in tech to Google 'Sexual Support $location'?
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      It's not hard. The victim needs to be able to in the first place. Often they feel ashamed, which is crazy, sometimes they blame themselves even though its not their fault. That's the point I'm making.
      - volvelle 13y ago
        And it's moot - if the author is telling the truth. The author is not ashamed to very publicly make these (as yet) unsubstantiated claims. I assume talking to an abuse charity in private, who help with a police prosecution, causes less shame. The only reason I can think why someone would not go to the police is because independent witnesses (see earlier references to CCTV, the likely sober bartenders over drinking buddies) would not back up a claim. This was a crowded bar, surrounded by many people. I can only surmise that the reason they have not sought a prosecution is because they are lying/misleading, and they know they will be caught out.
        volvelle 13y ago
        EDIT: Having let the furore subside a little, and after reading some more of the numerous comments and articles, "lying/misleading" is the wrong choice of words. Although I do not buy that the accusers DUI and destructive behaviour are solely caused by this incident, I do not think the author is malicious in their intent. Extremely sexualised behaviour led to the alleged assaulter going too far. He lost his job as a result, but this was not a criminal offence: HR didn't file a police report, and neither did the alleged victim. No-one else did either. Embarrassing? Yes. Uncomfortable? Yes. Criminal? No.