6 ms·

I'll oblige you with a response. This wasn't just "any contact". Did you read where he jammed his tongue down her throat? Did you read where he groped her as

by gregd 13y ago

I'll oblige you with a response. This wasn't just "any contact". Did you read where he jammed his tongue down her throat? Did you read where he groped her ass? Did you read the part about penetrating her with his finger? Quit trying to frame this as just "any contact" because it wasn't.

pearjuice 13y ago
Seeing as you are an expert on the matter: whenever I am presented in such a situation; at which point do I ask the woman for consent? Is it when she jumps on the bar and lifts her shirt or when I lick her belly button (which was why she jumped on the bar)? Before I wrap my hands around her of after I kiss her forehead?
- chris_wot 13y ago
  If you are her boss, you don't do those things at all.
  - pearjuice 13y ago
    If you are an employee, you don't do those things near your boss.
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      I don't disagree, but it's hardly the point. It is far, far worse for an employer to do this sort of thing than it was for the employee to have done something inappropriate in front of her boss. Their is a power imbalance in the employee/employer relationship, and it is almost always skewed to the employer. That's why there are unions, and workplace relations laws.
swombat 13y ago
Without wading into this pointless debate, the fact that this part of the story was in the shape of bullet points does not help lift the ambiguity... The bullet points seem to cover several minutes at least, if not a good half hour or longer. At all times she could have said "please stop now". Did she? Perhaps she did. We don't know, though. At one point she expressed surprise that her boss would do this even though he was married. Was that "please stop, you're married!" Or was it "aren't you married?" Could be either, from this report... So the ambiguity is enough to give space to all these pointlessly angry debates. Edit: the following links remove some ambiguity, but not a whole lot: http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer
- nate_meurer 13y ago
  Thank you for those links.
- drogus 13y ago
  The lack of resistance is not a consent.
fingerfood 13y ago
> Did you read where he jammed his tongue down her throat? No. > Did you read where he groped her ass? Yes. > Did you read the part about penetrating her with his finger? No. Quit trying to sensationalize the story.
- gregd 13y ago
  So on top of a lack of reading comprehension, we have people blaming the victim? Is it any wonder women find it hard to exist in the tech world?
  - fingerfood 13y ago
    You exaggerated with 1. 2 was explicitly stated. For 3, fingering does not imply penetration. What was that again about reading comprehension? Are you implying that I blamed the victim? What was that again about reading comprehension?
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      He stuck his hand down the front of her pants and started fingering her. That is penetration. I don't see how you could interpret it differently. He didn't exaggerate about him forcibly sticking his tongue down her throat. That's what she wrote. You clearly do have a reading comprehension problem!
      - fingerfood 13y ago
        He didn't exaggerate? You and he must have awfully long tongues! Believe me, I've tried. Fingering may or may not involve penetration. I can't make it any clearer without being explicit. Or, maybe I have a reading comprehension problem.
        chris_wot 13y ago
        You have a reading comprehension problem. I'd suggest you stop digging that hole any deeper.
Dalkore 13y ago
Why did she not pull away after the kiss and be done with it. It takes some time to kiss someone, reach around grab their butt then go down the pants which were likely tight fitting jeans. Just time it yourself and ask yourself if there is enough time for someone to pull away. I am not sure how you "jam" you tongue down someones throat and not have them pull away if they did not want that from you. Check your emotions for a second and read through and document all the facts and weigh them before you start making judgements.

by gregd 13y ago

pearjuice 13y ago

Seeing as you are an expert on the matter: whenever I am presented in such a situation; at which point do I ask the woman for consent? Is it when she jumps on the bar and lifts her shirt or when I lick her belly button (which was why she jumped on the bar)? Before I wrap my hands around her of after I kiss her forehead?

chris_wot 13y ago
If you are her boss, you don't do those things at all.
- pearjuice 13y ago
  If you are an employee, you don't do those things near your boss.
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    I don't disagree, but it's hardly the point. It is far, far worse for an employer to do this sort of thing than it was for the employee to have done something inappropriate in front of her boss. Their is a power imbalance in the employee/employer relationship, and it is almost always skewed to the employer. That's why there are unions, and workplace relations laws.

swombat 13y ago

Without wading into this pointless debate, the fact that this part of the story was in the shape of bullet points does not help lift the ambiguity... The bullet points seem to cover several minutes at least, if not a good half hour or longer. At all times she could have said "please stop now". Did she? Perhaps she did. We don't know, though. At one point she expressed surprise that her boss would do this even though he was married. Was that "please stop, you're married!" Or was it "aren't you married?" Could be either, from this report... So the ambiguity is enough to give space to all these pointlessly angry debates. Edit: the following links remove some ambiguity, but not a whole lot: http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer

nate_meurer 13y ago
Thank you for those links.
drogus 13y ago
The lack of resistance is not a consent.

fingerfood 13y ago

> Did you read where he jammed his tongue down her throat? No. > Did you read where he groped her ass? Yes. > Did you read the part about penetrating her with his finger? No. Quit trying to sensationalize the story.

gregd 13y ago
So on top of a lack of reading comprehension, we have people blaming the victim? Is it any wonder women find it hard to exist in the tech world?
- fingerfood 13y ago
  You exaggerated with 1. 2 was explicitly stated. For 3, fingering does not imply penetration. What was that again about reading comprehension? Are you implying that I blamed the victim? What was that again about reading comprehension?
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    He stuck his hand down the front of her pants and started fingering her. That is penetration. I don't see how you could interpret it differently. He didn't exaggerate about him forcibly sticking his tongue down her throat. That's what she wrote. You clearly do have a reading comprehension problem!
    - fingerfood 13y ago
      He didn't exaggerate? You and he must have awfully long tongues! Believe me, I've tried. Fingering may or may not involve penetration. I can't make it any clearer without being explicit. Or, maybe I have a reading comprehension problem.
      - chris_wot 13y ago
        You have a reading comprehension problem. I'd suggest you stop digging that hole any deeper.

Dalkore 13y ago

Why did she not pull away after the kiss and be done with it. It takes some time to kiss someone, reach around grab their butt then go down the pants which were likely tight fitting jeans. Just time it yourself and ask yourself if there is enough time for someone to pull away. I am not sure how you "jam" you tongue down someones throat and not have them pull away if they did not want that from you. Check your emotions for a second and read through and document all the facts and weigh them before you start making judgements.