4 ms·

Reading the comments here makes me think I am in bizarro world. Is expecting women to say "No!" already too much personal responsibility for them these days? C

• steveklabnik 13y ago
  Consent is not defined by the absence of a no, but a presence of a yes. The situation described falls within the definition of sexual assault in the United States, at least. I am not a lawyer. Decide for yourself: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.03 http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.03
  • wilkie 13y ago
    'a presence of a yes and the lack of coercion,' since sexual assault is generally defined by this. Him being her employer, and thus responsible for her career, can certainly be asserted as possible coercion, even if there is any implied 'yes', which I don't think there was at any rate.
    • steveklabnik 13y ago
      Yes, thank you. Coercion is an incredibly important part of this.
  • lawnchair_larry 13y ago
    > Consent is not defined by the absence of a no, but a presence of a yes. As nice as that sounds, there isn't a shred of truth to it in the real world. Pre-emptively asking a female before making a move will get you shut down every time. You're supposed to read the situation, pick up on signals, and often be a little bit psychic. Show me a female who wants you to explicitly ask permission before every action and I'll show you a liar.
    • steveklabnik 13y ago
      Sorry, I can counter your antidote with ones of my own. I have, in fact, pre-emptively asked a woman these kinds of things and had success.
    • wilkie 13y ago
      And if you are wrong in your 'psychic' ability, that's sexual assault. The ends never justify the means when you don't get consent. A woman (can we call them women instead of females?) may not care for explicit permission, but that's irrelevant since no woman wants to be sexually assaulted.
    • tommorris 13y ago
      Pre-emptively asking someone before borrowing their car gets you shut down every time. That's not a reason to not do do so.
      • lawnchair_larry 13y ago
        I'm not arguing for or against anything in particular, I'm just saying how humans mate away from their keyboards. A process which has no relation whatsoever to that of borrowing a vehicle, I might add. If you want to go reductio ad absurdum on me, you can twist what I said to imply that I'm suggesting it's fine to go around raping people first and asking questions later, but I trust that a rational reader won't have issues understanding what my actual message was (even if they disagree with it (wrongly)).
  • general_failure 13y ago
    By your definition, there's countless rapes in movies. Can we change the hollywood movies from here on to always ask 'may i have sex with you?' before they start making out? If they don't ask, I want these movies to be rated R since they are showing rape and possibly sexual assault.
    • chris_wot 13y ago
      Yeah, that's right. Comparing Hollywood to actions in real life. Very helpful.
• zghst 13y ago
  She did tell him to stop, however she told him because "he had a wife and kids" and not because she was uncomfortable(?). I agree, this can hardly be marked as assault. From her account, she barely made an effort to let him know that his advances were unwelcome. If she doesn't have the ability to stop him and walk away from the situation, which she was perfectly capable of, then maybe she shouldn't be out in the adult world.
  • deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  • wilkie 13y ago
    His hand was down her pants in public... we are way passed the fuzzy moral lines. This is certainly sexual assault and I'm not sure how one can argue that she is responsible for making it clear by some unwritten protocol that all people understand rather than have it be understood that you have the burden and responsibility to not sexually harass people.