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This is sad. I don't want to be the devil advocate but I don't think we can judge here...So I will imagine the defense of Joe ; I understand that Justine doesn
by BenderV 13y ago
This is sad.
I don't want to be the devil advocate but I don't think we can judge here...So I will imagine the defense of Joe ;
I understand that Justine doesn't want to enter in details. But without all informations, it does seem to me that Joe could have just misunderstood Justine behavior.
"- Joe began to start rubbing my back and kissing my forehead (let me say this is not uncommon behavior between me and men I consider close friends."
=> Joe certainly believed that it was unique between Her and Him. He doesn't have the same pov as Justine
"- Joe then put his hands down the back of my pants, yes, I wear a thong and thus he began grabbing my ass."
=> Shouldn't she stop him there ?
"- Joe then started kissing me, forcibly with his tongue. I was not reciprocating."
=> Joe is drunk. He certainly does not remark that.
"- Joe began to put his hand down the front of my pants and finger me."
=> He certainly have gone to far there. But why does he wasn't stopped before and during that operation (not easy) !
"- I told Joe to stop and reminded him he had a wife and children. He said, “Don’t’ worry about it we have an agreement”"
=> That unfortunate, in one side (Justine), it seems to be the smartest thing to say to calm him down, in the other side (Joe), it seems like a girl who know it is wrong but wanted it if he is certain would said.
As for what we have here, it doesn't seem to me that Joe is specially an asshole (but maybe I'm wrong.), but more that this could be the results of peers pressure and mis-communication.
[Again, I don't want to judge here, just to give another pov]
It's however clear that Joe should have think about how his work relation [the fact that he is her boss...] influence that relation.
Maybe this is what the victims of assault don't tell the police. They fear that the case will be drop because of lack of details...
"- Finally Matt Darby approached me and asked if I want to go out for a smoke (I smoke, he does’t smoke, and I knew that he was trying to help) I agreed."
That's a smart move. Bravo Matt.
In another subject, I'm surprised (and sad ?) that HN doesn't give any tips, tools for all the possible victims.
- steveklabnik 13y ago> without all informations Which more information would you need? There are two other people that corroborate her story, and Joe says he's not saying anything.
- BenderV 13y agoThe defense of Joe ? The fact that he is not saying anything on the Internet is not a proof of anything... And again, I don't say that her story is false. Just that it could have been viewed in an another way from Joe pov. People seem eager to judge other people. Especially on the internet...
- spatulon 13y agoI've also noticed that people on the internet usually react to a woman's claim of assault or rape with skepticism and disbelief. Even in this thread, there seems to be a lot of empathy for the alleged attacker -- whose story we haven't heard -- and far too little for the victim. We know what she says happened, we know it's been corroborated by two witnesses, and we know the resulting trauma it's caused her, so why are so many people feeling sorry him and not her?
- Dalkore 13y agoWhere is this, I would like to read the other two accounts.
- steveklabnik 13y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6540442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6540442
- BenderV 13y agoThanks !
- wilkie 13y agoNot a very substantial defense. You've quoted 1 of 3 accounts suggesting a crime, and there aren't any accounts of a defense. The only defense so far is a bunch of rather ridiculous hearsay by a bunch of internet people who weren't there.
- BenderV 13y agoWell, I'm not an advocate :P I am more in the mitigating circumstances than in a total defense. "The only defense so far is a bunch of rather ridiculous hearsay by a bunch of internet people who weren't there." That the whole goal of this post. How can you judge without a defense ?