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I'm glad this is out there. It's a tragedy that it happened at all, but it would be an even bigger tragedy if nobody else knew the consequences. I think everyon

by sgentle 13y ago

I'm glad this is out there. It's a tragedy that it happened at all, but it would be an even bigger tragedy if nobody else knew the consequences. I think everyone experiences that moment sometimes where you think "is this okay? should I say something?" And after you waver for a second, your decision reinforces itself and you end up doing nothing at all. Maybe you can even convince yourself that it was all okay in the end. After all, the consequences are invisible. Well, not this time. I found two other perspectives on the story: http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer I'm particularly heartened by Zach's account. The police can prosecute assaults, absolutely, but they can't stop them before they happen. The community can. By setting clearer expectations of behaviour, recognising potentially dangerous situations and taking steps to ameliorate the risk, and by being willing to step in before anything goes off the rails, the community can stop this from happening again. And, thanks to Justine, maybe they will.

GeorgeOrr 13y ago
The vast majority of people are good, honourable though often less vocal on the internet. We outnumber the bastards out there. We just need to learn to step up and stop evil when we see it. That's the leson I take from Zach's account. If we can be just as quick in doing that as others are in posting judgemental comments on board then a lot of horrible experiences will be averted. How horrible the effect evil has on people is what I learned from Justine's account. The stakes couldn't be higher.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  "All that's needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
throwaway9848 13y ago
Let's keep some perspective. A second ship in one week carrying desperate, impoverished African migrants sunk of the coast of Italy yesterday. Many drowned. That is a tragedy. This is just one of those bad things that happens in life that one has to move on from. While I agree in helping others, people need to help themselves. Everything you wrote about the community needs to be done by the individual, too. Also, one must not let their life go entirely off the rails in the face of an adverse event.
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  Let's keep some perspective. A second ship in one week carrying desperate, impoverished African migrants sunk of the coast of Italy yesterday. Many drowned. That is a tragedy. You wrote this under a throwaway account, so I think you understand my point before I make it, but I'll say it anyway. A situation like this doesn't call for debates or intellectual analysis. Winning debate points when the subject is sexual assault doesn't move the topic forward, it just makes you look insensitive and begs a flame war to begin. I wrote a top-level comment stating this point already on this thread, but it's very important this is understood. It's not your place to judge what another human being's tragedy is. I'm not trying to white-knight you, it's just something that really needs to sink in. You cannot minimize another individual's experiences just because some distant collective suffers more according to a standard of utilitarian rigor. If you want to help, don't debate the point. This subject is too close to heart for that to do anything but alienate people. Empathize and show support instead. Send Justine a kind email if you find that agreeable. This is just one of those bad things that happens in life that one has to move on from. While I agree in helping others, people need to help themselves. Everything you wrote about the community needs to be done by the individual, too. Also, one must not let their life go entirely off the rails in the face of an adverse event. I don't know your personal history, but looking back on the most painful experience in your life, would you say this in regards to yourself? No human exists as an island. What you are saying is tantamount to blaming someone for being inert when they're depressed, instead of treating it is something that is out of their control to begin with.
  - throwaway9848 13y ago
    I wrote a longer response, but I can pare it down to this: This is just one side to a situation that I have no first person knowledge of. Even taking everything she wrote at face value, I think she has made decisions that will make her own recovery more difficult than necessary. Bad things happen to everyone. Often much worse than this. It is the nature of life, and underscores just how little we all really control. What we do control is how we handle ourselves in the face this adversity. Language is always important. It is crystallized thought, and bad language creates bad thinking.
  - 13y ago

by sgentle 13y ago

GeorgeOrr 13y ago

The vast majority of people are good, honourable though often less vocal on the internet. We outnumber the bastards out there. We just need to learn to step up and stop evil when we see it. That's the leson I take from Zach's account. If we can be just as quick in doing that as others are in posting judgemental comments on board then a lot of horrible experiences will be averted. How horrible the effect evil has on people is what I learned from Justine's account. The stakes couldn't be higher.

steveklabnik 13y ago
"All that's needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

throwaway9848 13y ago

Let's keep some perspective. A second ship in one week carrying desperate, impoverished African migrants sunk of the coast of Italy yesterday. Many drowned. That is a tragedy. This is just one of those bad things that happens in life that one has to move on from. While I agree in helping others, people need to help themselves. Everything you wrote about the community needs to be done by the individual, too. Also, one must not let their life go entirely off the rails in the face of an adverse event.

dylangs1030 13y ago
Let's keep some perspective. A second ship in one week carrying desperate, impoverished African migrants sunk of the coast of Italy yesterday. Many drowned. That is a tragedy. You wrote this under a throwaway account, so I think you understand my point before I make it, but I'll say it anyway. A situation like this doesn't call for debates or intellectual analysis. Winning debate points when the subject is sexual assault doesn't move the topic forward, it just makes you look insensitive and begs a flame war to begin. I wrote a top-level comment stating this point already on this thread, but it's very important this is understood. It's not your place to judge what another human being's tragedy is. I'm not trying to white-knight you, it's just something that really needs to sink in. You cannot minimize another individual's experiences just because some distant collective suffers more according to a standard of utilitarian rigor. If you want to help, don't debate the point. This subject is too close to heart for that to do anything but alienate people. Empathize and show support instead. Send Justine a kind email if you find that agreeable. This is just one of those bad things that happens in life that one has to move on from. While I agree in helping others, people need to help themselves. Everything you wrote about the community needs to be done by the individual, too. Also, one must not let their life go entirely off the rails in the face of an adverse event. I don't know your personal history, but looking back on the most painful experience in your life, would you say this in regards to yourself? No human exists as an island. What you are saying is tantamount to blaming someone for being inert when they're depressed, instead of treating it is something that is out of their control to begin with.
- throwaway9848 13y ago
  I wrote a longer response, but I can pare it down to this: This is just one side to a situation that I have no first person knowledge of. Even taking everything she wrote at face value, I think she has made decisions that will make her own recovery more difficult than necessary. Bad things happen to everyone. Often much worse than this. It is the nature of life, and underscores just how little we all really control. What we do control is how we handle ourselves in the face this adversity. Language is always important. It is crystallized thought, and bad language creates bad thinking.
- 13y ago