4 ms·

Sexual assault is a crime, and she should report this to the police and press charges. A blog post isn't going to get justice, but the courts might. Internet

Sexual assault is a crime, and she should report this to the police and press charges. A blog post isn't going to get justice, but the courts might. Internet mob justice isn't justice.

steveklabnik 13y ago
Apparently you are not familiar with this topic, or you would know that going to the police almost never does anything in this situation. Posting a factual account of events is not an "internet mob."
- ryan-allen 13y ago
  Wow, what was I thinking. You definitely should never, ever, report crimes to the police. Especially if there were two witness bar staff!
  - steveklabnik 13y ago
    It is possible that, in the moment, that would have made a difference. Remember this assault occurred almost a year ago. Furthermore, I didn't say 'crimes,' I said sexual assault. Again, I am not being abstract: if you talk to anyone who works with sexual assault victims, you know how futile that course of action is. Let's not forget that lawyers cost money, for example.
    - ryan-allen 13y ago
      Statue of limitations on sexual assault is longer than 9 months. Two witnesses that can be tracked down. You are advising against not even trying to press charges? Character assassination without trial is better? The courts exist for a reason and there were two witnesses. Do you have any citations for the futility of reporting a crime with two witnesses?
      - steveklabnik 13y ago
        > Do you have any citations for the futility of reporting a crime with two witnesses? http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-ra... http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/43249/ http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/43249/ That's just two.
        makomk 13y ago
        So in other words, no, you don't have any citations but are going to link statistics based on totally different situations in order to make reporting this kind of crime seem futile. In fact, let me quote from one of the links you posted: "The victim of a rape or sexual assault possesses a rare commodity, the knowledge of the crime (Allen, 2007). In most rape and sexual assault cases there is little physical evidence to prove that there was an assault or to differentiate the assault from consensual sexual activity. Consequently, in any rape case, the outcome of the trial is highly dependent on the testimony of the victim. Therefore, victims rely heavily on their own credibility in the eyes of the public. In reporting a rape, victims are opening themselves up to society’s judgment and public scrutiny of their stories." It doesn't even consider the possibility that there might be corraborating witnesses because there generally aren't. Also, the main point of the paper - that women don't report they were raped because of the social consequences of doing so - applies even more to writing a blog post about it than it does to reporting it to the police anyway.
  - wilkie 13y ago
    Can we agree that you speak from an idealistic, not realistic, point of view? https://twitter.com/kittystryker/status/388925083559141376 https://twitter.com/kittystryker/status/388925083559141376
  - wilkie 13y ago
    This is the painted lie that her company allowed him to make: http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ This is the reality. I don't hold too much optimism that the police would somehow solve this problem considering the damage done and the lack of any support to go back to.
    - ryan-allen 13y ago
      THERE WERE TWO WITNESSES. His blog post is irrelevant to his guilt or innocence based on a blog post of another individual. Two witnesses is pretty clear cut. It's called 'corroboration', you should look it up and learn something perhaps!
      - wilkie 13y ago
        Read this slowly, you can do it-- you're good at reading: It should be expected not that victims live up to another's definition of responsibility, but that people be responsible enough not to create victims.
      - DigitalJack 13y ago
        The problem is what did they witness? A girl doing a bodyshot, followed by the man who took the shot kissing her and getting hands on. In this post I don't see anything indicating she tried to reject these moves. I don't see how somebody could tell it was unwanted from a third person perspective.
        steveklabnik 13y ago
        > The executive's posture and actions aggressive; "no" was not a possibility. She was visibly upset and shut down. That's an understatement. I saw somebody trapped in a nightmare, in public. That freeze frame is burned into my brain. http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events
        GeorgeOrr 13y ago
        By "getting hands on" to be clear you are referring to his fondling her backside and front. Just to be clear, what those witness saw was molestation in progress. Thank god one of them gave her a chance to escape. Thank god there was one person not like you there.
sneak 13y ago
I don't disagree, but a prosecution is unlikely to undo the damage that was done. Google is more powerful than you may think. This is not an empty gesture.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  > This is not an empty gesture. Neither was the assault.
  - sneak 13y ago
    Yeah, I really wish we lived in a world where pigs take sexcrime seriously. :( I think police attitudes toward this stuff are probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks on the path to eradicating it. Think of how much progress could be made if reports were taken seriously and actually investigated with the levels of effort they put into investigating murder or drug trafficking.
konstruktor 13y ago
According to the story, the other person involved was allowed to leave the company, saying it was his own decision. Nobody forced him to blog about it. He, however, chose to take the topic of his leaving the company public, in a way that one can easily see would sound like derision to somebody who was a victim of assault: http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ So now it's internet mob behaviour if she posts her side of the story?
- ryan-allen 13y ago
  Last time I checked there was this thing called "due process". There were two witnesses to the alleged assault and I say alleged because in the eyes of the law it is alleged until tried in a court, and you are an idiot if you don't know this. You don't even know if the assault happened and you are judging this man without a trial. You are a a goddamn imbecile. There were two witnesses, that's pretty clear cut. His blog post has nothing to do with the alleged assault and you produce that as evidence of his guilt? I'm glad you're not running the legal system.
  - dangrossman 13y ago
    This isn't really an appropriate tone to take on this site (or anywhere really). You also seem to be reading all kinds of things that weren't written in the parent comment. Please be more civil.
  - Dalkore 13y ago
    Exactly. All this guilt mobbing absurd. This is someones life we are talking about. If you really care about this situation you would want this to be handled properly and not through an internet website with a bunch of strangers that have no connection this is account other than it was posted here.
    - wilkie 13y ago
      There are three accounts of what happened all supporting her account of what happened. There is absolutely no guarantee that the courts are a safer, or better way for her to make her accusation. It might be the opposite. Or the police won't care.

Sexual assault is a crime, and she should report this to the police and press charges. A blog post isn't going to get justice, but the courts might. Internet mob justice isn't justice.

steveklabnik 13y ago

Apparently you are not familiar with this topic, or you would know that going to the police almost never does anything in this situation. Posting a factual account of events is not an "internet mob."

ryan-allen 13y ago
Wow, what was I thinking. You definitely should never, ever, report crimes to the police. Especially if there were two witness bar staff!
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  It is possible that, in the moment, that would have made a difference. Remember this assault occurred almost a year ago. Furthermore, I didn't say 'crimes,' I said sexual assault. Again, I am not being abstract: if you talk to anyone who works with sexual assault victims, you know how futile that course of action is. Let's not forget that lawyers cost money, for example.
  - ryan-allen 13y ago
    Statue of limitations on sexual assault is longer than 9 months. Two witnesses that can be tracked down. You are advising against not even trying to press charges? Character assassination without trial is better? The courts exist for a reason and there were two witnesses. Do you have any citations for the futility of reporting a crime with two witnesses?
    - steveklabnik 13y ago
      > Do you have any citations for the futility of reporting a crime with two witnesses? http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-ra... http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/43249/ http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/43249/ That's just two.
      - makomk 13y ago
        So in other words, no, you don't have any citations but are going to link statistics based on totally different situations in order to make reporting this kind of crime seem futile. In fact, let me quote from one of the links you posted: "The victim of a rape or sexual assault possesses a rare commodity, the knowledge of the crime (Allen, 2007). In most rape and sexual assault cases there is little physical evidence to prove that there was an assault or to differentiate the assault from consensual sexual activity. Consequently, in any rape case, the outcome of the trial is highly dependent on the testimony of the victim. Therefore, victims rely heavily on their own credibility in the eyes of the public. In reporting a rape, victims are opening themselves up to society’s judgment and public scrutiny of their stories." It doesn't even consider the possibility that there might be corraborating witnesses because there generally aren't. Also, the main point of the paper - that women don't report they were raped because of the social consequences of doing so - applies even more to writing a blog post about it than it does to reporting it to the police anyway.
- wilkie 13y ago
  Can we agree that you speak from an idealistic, not realistic, point of view? https://twitter.com/kittystryker/status/388925083559141376 https://twitter.com/kittystryker/status/388925083559141376
- wilkie 13y ago
  This is the painted lie that her company allowed him to make: http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ This is the reality. I don't hold too much optimism that the police would somehow solve this problem considering the damage done and the lack of any support to go back to.
  - ryan-allen 13y ago
    THERE WERE TWO WITNESSES. His blog post is irrelevant to his guilt or innocence based on a blog post of another individual. Two witnesses is pretty clear cut. It's called 'corroboration', you should look it up and learn something perhaps!
    - wilkie 13y ago
      Read this slowly, you can do it-- you're good at reading: It should be expected not that victims live up to another's definition of responsibility, but that people be responsible enough not to create victims.
    - DigitalJack 13y ago
      The problem is what did they witness? A girl doing a bodyshot, followed by the man who took the shot kissing her and getting hands on. In this post I don't see anything indicating she tried to reject these moves. I don't see how somebody could tell it was unwanted from a third person perspective.
      - steveklabnik 13y ago
        > The executive's posture and actions aggressive; "no" was not a possibility. She was visibly upset and shut down. That's an understatement. I saw somebody trapped in a nightmare, in public. That freeze frame is burned into my brain. http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events http://theotherzach.com/writes/2013/10/9/events
      - GeorgeOrr 13y ago
        By "getting hands on" to be clear you are referring to his fondling her backside and front. Just to be clear, what those witness saw was molestation in progress. Thank god one of them gave her a chance to escape. Thank god there was one person not like you there.

sneak 13y ago

I don't disagree, but a prosecution is unlikely to undo the damage that was done. Google is more powerful than you may think. This is not an empty gesture.

steveklabnik 13y ago
> This is not an empty gesture. Neither was the assault.
- sneak 13y ago
  Yeah, I really wish we lived in a world where pigs take sexcrime seriously. :( I think police attitudes toward this stuff are probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks on the path to eradicating it. Think of how much progress could be made if reports were taken seriously and actually investigated with the levels of effort they put into investigating murder or drug trafficking.

konstruktor 13y ago

According to the story, the other person involved was allowed to leave the company, saying it was his own decision. Nobody forced him to blog about it. He, however, chose to take the topic of his leaving the company public, in a way that one can easily see would sound like derision to somebody who was a victim of assault: http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ So now it's internet mob behaviour if she posts her side of the story?

ryan-allen 13y ago
Last time I checked there was this thing called "due process". There were two witnesses to the alleged assault and I say alleged because in the eyes of the law it is alleged until tried in a court, and you are an idiot if you don't know this. You don't even know if the assault happened and you are judging this man without a trial. You are a a goddamn imbecile. There were two witnesses, that's pretty clear cut. His blog post has nothing to do with the alleged assault and you produce that as evidence of his guilt? I'm glad you're not running the legal system.
- dangrossman 13y ago
  This isn't really an appropriate tone to take on this site (or anywhere really). You also seem to be reading all kinds of things that weren't written in the parent comment. Please be more civil.
- Dalkore 13y ago
  Exactly. All this guilt mobbing absurd. This is someones life we are talking about. If you really care about this situation you would want this to be handled properly and not through an internet website with a bunch of strangers that have no connection this is account other than it was posted here.
  - wilkie 13y ago
    There are three accounts of what happened all supporting her account of what happened. There is absolutely no guarantee that the courts are a safer, or better way for her to make her accusation. It might be the opposite. Or the police won't care.