39 ms·

Sure, and I agree lisp, clojure, ml, haskell, etc get that reputation more than others. I am just pointing out that they get that reputation by doing the same

by asdasf 13y ago

Sure, and I agree lisp, clojure, ml, haskell, etc get that reputation more than others. I am just pointing out that they get that reputation by doing the same thing everyone else does, so it isn't really a valid criticism.

pekk 13y ago
As a cultural note, PHP users don't claim that using other languages makes one's programs inherently dangerous. Or that using their language makes the programs bug-free. etc. (as we see in headlines of blog posts linked here.) One does not come in for scolding and condescension by PHP programmers merely for using other languages. Whatever the faults of PHP might be, PHP programmers are distinctly more pleasant in this respect. And actually the same is largely true of Lisp, which emphasizes things like homoiconicity and expressiveness but doesn't make the actually absurd claim that it eliminates bugs or is the only way anyone should write code. Really there aren't any other languages which can compare with Haskell in regard to the aggressiveness of their advocacy.
- tikhonj 13y ago
  It's cooled down by now, but I recall far more aggressive advocacy for Python even just a few years ago. Everyone was pushing it as the best language ever and a healthy breath of fresh air from whatever else they happen to be using. After all, all those other languages are not Pythonic! Of course, look where that got them. PHP users do not talk about other languages as being inherently dangerous because they simply do not have a leg to stand on. They're perfectly happy talking about how all other languages are impossible to set up and completely impractical for beginner web programmers though--just look at any recent PHP thread on HN. They essentially push PHP as a language for "Joe the plumber", which I personally find rather more condescending. And, before my time, OOP was getting pushed far harder than functional programming is now. I've read plenty of old articles and whole books about how OOP (in its C++ or Java guide) is essentially the second coming, here to liberate you from your horrible procedural C/Perl ways. Hell, design patters practically became a religion with the gang of four as its prophet. Good times. But hey, with all that crazy proselytization, there's no way that cult or Java would ever catch on, happily. Don't even get me started about Go, the language whose designers dismiss practically every recent PL advancement as academic nonsense and have reinvented a bunch of wheels. And yet it's "just in a league of its own for concurrency", to quote a recent HN post. But yes, Haskell is unique in this regard.
- blacksmythe 13y ago
  >> claim that it eliminates bugs You may not have read 'Land of Lisp'.

by asdasf 13y ago

pekk 13y ago

As a cultural note, PHP users don't claim that using other languages makes one's programs inherently dangerous. Or that using their language makes the programs bug-free. etc. (as we see in headlines of blog posts linked here.) One does not come in for scolding and condescension by PHP programmers merely for using other languages. Whatever the faults of PHP might be, PHP programmers are distinctly more pleasant in this respect. And actually the same is largely true of Lisp, which emphasizes things like homoiconicity and expressiveness but doesn't make the actually absurd claim that it eliminates bugs or is the only way anyone should write code. Really there aren't any other languages which can compare with Haskell in regard to the aggressiveness of their advocacy.

tikhonj 13y ago
It's cooled down by now, but I recall far more aggressive advocacy for Python even just a few years ago. Everyone was pushing it as the best language ever and a healthy breath of fresh air from whatever else they happen to be using. After all, all those other languages are not Pythonic! Of course, look where that got them. PHP users do not talk about other languages as being inherently dangerous because they simply do not have a leg to stand on. They're perfectly happy talking about how all other languages are impossible to set up and completely impractical for beginner web programmers though--just look at any recent PHP thread on HN. They essentially push PHP as a language for "Joe the plumber", which I personally find rather more condescending. And, before my time, OOP was getting pushed far harder than functional programming is now. I've read plenty of old articles and whole books about how OOP (in its C++ or Java guide) is essentially the second coming, here to liberate you from your horrible procedural C/Perl ways. Hell, design patters practically became a religion with the gang of four as its prophet. Good times. But hey, with all that crazy proselytization, there's no way that cult or Java would ever catch on, happily. Don't even get me started about Go, the language whose designers dismiss practically every recent PL advancement as academic nonsense and have reinvented a bunch of wheels. And yet it's "just in a league of its own for concurrency", to quote a recent HN post. But yes, Haskell is unique in this regard.
blacksmythe 13y ago
>> claim that it eliminates bugs You may not have read 'Land of Lisp'.