4 ms·

I think that's a good thing honestly, instead of being only an arms race for the team that will make the most expensive car they have to be very clever in findi

by simias 13y ago

I think that's a good thing honestly, instead of being only an arms race for the team that will make the most expensive car they have to be very clever in finding ways to shave a few milliseconds in each lap. I see that like code golf or the IOCCC, the constraints are what makes it interesting and challenging. In the case of F1 I think it's also about keeping the human factor, without regulations I'm sure by now we'd have fully automated cars that would react in a microsecond, better than any human could. But that's no good show.

brey 13y ago
it is a good thing. it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics. but human ingenuity being what it is, we shouldn't be surprised that people come up with new ways to bend the rules ... be that 'not-technically-traction-control traction control' or subtly altered performance-enhancing drugs the governing body's not had time to ban yet.
- simias 13y ago
  Of course, and at least in the case of formula one it usually does not endanger the pilots, unlike the use of performance enhancing drugs in sports. One team is being clever and finds a loophole/new way of doing something. They win big. Then next year either it gets forbidden or everybody else starts doing it and there's still competition ash innovation.
- uhhmwat 13y ago
  > it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics. It's not the same thing at all. Horrible analogy.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    Yes changes your sex / danger of death and a whole load of other nasty side effects - I found I turned into Homer Simpson "mm doughnuts" However they are righteous shit ( I have had to take them for medical reasons) but whilst on 40mg a day I read of a tragic case of a child that died due to a bad reaction and she was only on 60mg a day.
ajays 13y ago
But it stifles innovation. A better solution (IMHO, and since I'm not a big follower of F-1 or racing in general, this is basically me talking out of my rear end) would be to, at the end of the year, share the designs and software with each other.
- simias 13y ago
  "Here's my design. It costs $10 billions to build. See you next year!"
- ericcumbee 13y ago
  Designs and software while it might help. It's having people that understand the technology. I read an article that Porsche has been trying to poach engineers from F1 and Audi's Le Mans program that have experience with Hybrid Drive Systems. They said that there are only maybe 10-15 people in the entire world that truly understand Hybrid Energy Recovery systems for racing applications.
  - gsnedders 13y ago
    Audi don't use an in-house hybrid system — it's bought from Williams Hybrid Power (one of the technology sales parts of Williams F1). The Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid similarly used a WHP system; I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche have gone down a similar route for next year.
    - ericcumbee 13y ago
      Yep but the Audi Engineers have the experience of integrating it with a car. Things like how the Hybrid system effects chassis setup, tire wear, fuel consumption, race strategy etc. All stuff that is not in the manual that comes from Williams.
specialist 13y ago
I favor having an unlimited tier for all sports. Anything (safe) goes. I think it would reduce cheating. Then I wouldn't care if the pros are using robots, steroids, time travel, whatever. And there's still plenty of competition for amateurs all the way up. I grew up watching hydroplane racing. The local races were super fun. Much like going to local drag races. But watching H1 Unlimited Racing was ecstasy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroplane_racing#Unlimited_Hydroplane_Racing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroplane_racing#Unlimited_Hyd...
- simias 13y ago
  That can end up killing the competition (and the sport). See the criticism of the America's Cup for instance, where even competing teams said it was getting way too expensive to participate. People want actual competition, underdogs, suspense. Not having the guy with the biggest bank account win invariably and predictably. They want to root for a human, not an operating system. And nothing stops you from creating a new "F0" association with no rules, you just have to find a way to finance it and have people watch it. If the FIA thought removing those rules would make them more money or bring more viewers I'm pretty sure they would have done that long ago...
  - ars 13y ago
    So limit how much money a team is allowed to spend, rather than limit the technology.
    - MichaelGG 13y ago
      Easier said than done? E.g. what's to stop a team from buying a part from "some company" that only had one item in stock? Or what if all the engineers on one team decided to work for $1/year because they all got rich from something else? It seems like you'd need a huge amount of regulation on the teams R&D process to prevent extra money from somehow being spent.
      - ars 13y ago
mcguire 13y ago
Cough, cough, NASCAR.

by simias 13y ago

brey 13y ago

it is a good thing. it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics. but human ingenuity being what it is, we shouldn't be surprised that people come up with new ways to bend the rules ... be that 'not-technically-traction-control traction control' or subtly altered performance-enhancing drugs the governing body's not had time to ban yet.

simias 13y ago
Of course, and at least in the case of formula one it usually does not endanger the pilots, unlike the use of performance enhancing drugs in sports. One team is being clever and finds a loophole/new way of doing something. They win big. Then next year either it gets forbidden or everybody else starts doing it and there's still competition ash innovation.
uhhmwat 13y ago
> it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics. It's not the same thing at all. Horrible analogy.
- walshemj 13y ago
  Yes changes your sex / danger of death and a whole load of other nasty side effects - I found I turned into Homer Simpson "mm doughnuts" However they are righteous shit ( I have had to take them for medical reasons) but whilst on 40mg a day I read of a tragic case of a child that died due to a bad reaction and she was only on 60mg a day.

ajays 13y ago

But it stifles innovation. A better solution (IMHO, and since I'm not a big follower of F-1 or racing in general, this is basically me talking out of my rear end) would be to, at the end of the year, share the designs and software with each other.

simias 13y ago
"Here's my design. It costs $10 billions to build. See you next year!"
ericcumbee 13y ago
Designs and software while it might help. It's having people that understand the technology. I read an article that Porsche has been trying to poach engineers from F1 and Audi's Le Mans program that have experience with Hybrid Drive Systems. They said that there are only maybe 10-15 people in the entire world that truly understand Hybrid Energy Recovery systems for racing applications.
- gsnedders 13y ago
  Audi don't use an in-house hybrid system — it's bought from Williams Hybrid Power (one of the technology sales parts of Williams F1). The Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid similarly used a WHP system; I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche have gone down a similar route for next year.
  - ericcumbee 13y ago
    Yep but the Audi Engineers have the experience of integrating it with a car. Things like how the Hybrid system effects chassis setup, tire wear, fuel consumption, race strategy etc. All stuff that is not in the manual that comes from Williams.

specialist 13y ago

I favor having an unlimited tier for all sports. Anything (safe) goes. I think it would reduce cheating. Then I wouldn't care if the pros are using robots, steroids, time travel, whatever. And there's still plenty of competition for amateurs all the way up. I grew up watching hydroplane racing. The local races were super fun. Much like going to local drag races. But watching H1 Unlimited Racing was ecstasy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroplane_racing#Unlimited_Hydroplane_Racing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroplane_racing#Unlimited_Hyd...

simias 13y ago
That can end up killing the competition (and the sport). See the criticism of the America's Cup for instance, where even competing teams said it was getting way too expensive to participate. People want actual competition, underdogs, suspense. Not having the guy with the biggest bank account win invariably and predictably. They want to root for a human, not an operating system. And nothing stops you from creating a new "F0" association with no rules, you just have to find a way to finance it and have people watch it. If the FIA thought removing those rules would make them more money or bring more viewers I'm pretty sure they would have done that long ago...
- ars 13y ago
  So limit how much money a team is allowed to spend, rather than limit the technology.
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    Easier said than done? E.g. what's to stop a team from buying a part from "some company" that only had one item in stock? Or what if all the engineers on one team decided to work for $1/year because they all got rich from something else? It seems like you'd need a huge amount of regulation on the teams R&D process to prevent extra money from somehow being spent.
    - ars 13y ago

mcguire 13y ago

Cough, cough, NASCAR.