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Mostly I agree except for the statement "Privacy advocates are beginning to sound like copyright advocates, demanding that the universe continue providing for t

by ds9 13y ago

Mostly I agree except for the statement "Privacy advocates are beginning to sound like copyright advocates, demanding that the universe continue providing for them in the manner to which they have grown accustomed". Some copyright defenders are like that, because their fortunes depend on interfering in other people's lives and devices, or getting the government to police people for them - because that is inherently the only way copyright restrictions can be maintained. Privacy requires just the opposite - only a freedom from interference. It does require state enforcement, particularly a ban on companies requiring personal data as a condition of business. But people can still stay off Facebook, without thereby causing any harm to anyone else. And we can have private communications, if only government allows people to set up secure digital systems. The only things preventing privacy are government snooping and laissez-faire economics; with real democracy and regulation of exploitive business practices we'd have a better balance. (But copyright would be unenforceable.)

netcan 13y ago
I think we're looking at things from fundamentally different perspectives. You're using liberal/libertarian paradigms. Your placing the government and its decisions at the center (or the beginning). I'm seeing/contending that the government here is an agent of a more fundamental force. A technological progression force, kinda. IE, governments' access, collection & analysis of our "private data" is a sort of inevitability. One agent of an unstoppable force. BTW, governments' themselves are also victims of "private" information being accessed, collected & analyzed. That's what the wikileaks & (ironically) Snowden stuff was. Data getting free. I'm hesitant to put my thoughts int a strong abstract statement because as I said, I don't feel like I have a good understanding of it. But "All your data available to everyone everywhere" might be where I'd start to construct it. Once it's in gmail, Google have access to it and probably a few spy organizations. That's a few places that we know of. It will never be deleted and who knows who else will end up with it. Proliferation goes one way. It never goes back. One of these stores will eventually leak to the public like the US embassies' emails leaked to the public. I'm claiming (hesitantly, please be nice) that I think that maybe this isn't a matter of policy or laws. It's not about what a government will decide to do. It's a tidal wave that we can't keep out. Computers store, copy and distribute information. All our information is digital. Eventually it will all get out into the wild. So if there's a photo in your phone. An email in your gmail account or a GPS log in your watch, that is future public information.
nwzpaperman 13y ago
So your solution is more bureaucracy? I take it you believe the bureaucracy will be good with their extraordinary privileges "this time"? Get out of here, shill!!! People should lose all hope of online privacy and the sooner that value-reality-is embraced by the many, the sooner everyone can regain a healthy balance between online and offline lifestyles. Repeat after me: I only have the perception of a private life online. Anything I say or do online will be stored forever and used against me and my progeny as the prevailing laws and law enforcers deem appropriate.

by ds9 13y ago

netcan 13y ago

I think we're looking at things from fundamentally different perspectives. You're using liberal/libertarian paradigms. Your placing the government and its decisions at the center (or the beginning). I'm seeing/contending that the government here is an agent of a more fundamental force. A technological progression force, kinda. IE, governments' access, collection & analysis of our "private data" is a sort of inevitability. One agent of an unstoppable force. BTW, governments' themselves are also victims of "private" information being accessed, collected & analyzed. That's what the wikileaks & (ironically) Snowden stuff was. Data getting free. I'm hesitant to put my thoughts int a strong abstract statement because as I said, I don't feel like I have a good understanding of it. But "All your data available to everyone everywhere" might be where I'd start to construct it. Once it's in gmail, Google have access to it and probably a few spy organizations. That's a few places that we know of. It will never be deleted and who knows who else will end up with it. Proliferation goes one way. It never goes back. One of these stores will eventually leak to the public like the US embassies' emails leaked to the public. I'm claiming (hesitantly, please be nice) that I think that maybe this isn't a matter of policy or laws. It's not about what a government will decide to do. It's a tidal wave that we can't keep out. Computers store, copy and distribute information. All our information is digital. Eventually it will all get out into the wild. So if there's a photo in your phone. An email in your gmail account or a GPS log in your watch, that is future public information.

nwzpaperman 13y ago

So your solution is more bureaucracy? I take it you believe the bureaucracy will be good with their extraordinary privileges "this time"? Get out of here, shill!!! People should lose all hope of online privacy and the sooner that value-reality-is embraced by the many, the sooner everyone can regain a healthy balance between online and offline lifestyles. Repeat after me: I only have the perception of a private life online. Anything I say or do online will be stored forever and used against me and my progeny as the prevailing laws and law enforcers deem appropriate.