8 ms·

This sounds better than French government propaganda. Don't listen to this guy. France has great food, wine and architecture, I know that, I live here in Paris.

This sounds better than French government propaganda. Don't listen to this guy. France has great food, wine and architecture, I know that, I live here in Paris. But it's a hell hole if you're an entrepreneur, taxes are killing (+60%), investors get most of their money taken away, the State is bordering on insanity, social security doesn't reimburse much anymore and yet you're forced to pay for it+a private insurance and firing people is extremely costly, you can end up paying someone for years even though he's not doing anything anymore. And you can get sued for firing someone and the judge will side by default with the employee, most judges here are communists/far left to begin with or at least socialist if you wish. Also, here, 99% of people are statists. Every political debates revolve around this: "how can the state fix our problems and pay our bills". Depressing. Recently, many entrepreneurs decided to go on strike and stop paying some of their unfair taxes, Atlas Shrugged is literally happening here, all the richest have left, many entrepreneurs have left, many who stayed are going on strike. You know something is wrong with a country when Ayn Rand's exaggerated prophecies are becoming a reality. Anyway. Just my two cents. Edit: Dear fellow French. Please argue, don't just downvote and call BS.

p4bl0 13y ago
This is bullshit.
- e40 13y ago
  Yeah, the most judges here are communists/far left to begin with was where I got on the train.
  - patrickaljord 13y ago
    Well, obviously you two are French statists who believe in their system.
    - cyrillevincey 13y ago
      ... aren't by McCarthy's son by any chance?
  - cyrillevincey 13y ago
    +1, this guy did not sleep well last night...
  - e40 13y ago
    Yikes, I meant "off the train" not on. Talk about a bad typo.
cyrillevincey 13y ago
You are confusing personal taxes (up to 60% if you're rich... and stupid) and corporate taxes (which ARE 33%). The rest of your post is just your own - subjective - opinions, but I can tell from what you think that you are NOT running a business in France. By the way, I've fired 4 people in the past 6 months, and I haven't got sued. It's a question of doing it by the rules.
- VeejayRampay 13y ago
  > If you're rich... and stupid Right. Cause God knows paying taxes is stupid. I hate being French when I read non-sense like that, people need to educate themselves on the reality of the French taxation system and what it entails instead of viewing it through the reductive and limited angle of "whaaaa whaaa the state is stealing my hard-earned money". You'll think about stupid next time you go to a hospital, next time you cough the measly 20 euros up at the doctor, next time you need to send your kid to school or daycare and all that stuff that "stupid people" pay for. For shame.
  - cyrillevincey 13y ago
    Just saying that there are A LOT of fiscal optimizations - totally legal and publicly encouraged - to keep your taxes below 40%. Otherwise, I can't agree more with you about the chance of accessing amazingly good healthcare services for free in France. Here, Walter White would not have had to cook meth, after all...
- xutopia 13y ago
  I think he's folding in the "charges sociales" that companies have to pay out to the government when they offer a salary. From what I heard they're roughly 50% of the salary cost of each employee. I'm no expert though... could be different.
  - cyrillevincey 13y ago
    For the record, 100€ net in the pocket of an employee corresponds to 180€ cost-to-company.
p4bl0 13y ago
You want me to argue? > taxes are killing (+60%) Taxes are NOT 60% for business, it's 30%. It can go up to a bit less than 60% on personal incomes. That is if your are extremely rich. In 2012, the average taxation was less than 6%. The 45% slice of imposition (which to date is the highest) applies only if you earn more than 500,000€, and only on your incomes above that threshold. For instance if you earn 1,000,000€ you will pay 458,140.05€ of taxes on incomes, which is a bit less than 46%. To get up to 60% of taxes on incomes, you have to be immensely rich, you won't be suffering from your contribution to society. > the State is bordering on insanity Your personal (and imho, stupid as fuck, even if I don't particularly like our government) opinion. > social security doesn't reimburse much anymore and yet you're forced to pay for it+a private insurance This couldn't be more wrong. I don't have a private insurance (nor what we call a "mutuelle" to be clear), I only have the minimum public social security. I went to the hospital twice last month, and both time got a small surgical act in addition to the consultation of a doctor (she's one of the best in her domain, worldwide, fwiw). This cost me 21€ the first time and 7.5€ the second time. Most of the medicine I had to take after that were reimbursed almost entirely. This is not a special case, this is the rule. > firing people is extremely costly, you can end up paying someone for years even though he's not doing anything anymore. Other people responded to that one. But I may add that if you end up paying people for years after they stop working for you it's either for a non-competition contract or that you fired people without being able to give a reason. Too bad for you, workers are a bit protected in this country. > you can get sued for firing someone and the judge will side by default with the employee, most judges here are communists/far left to begin with or at least socialist if you wish. Let me laugh a bit I'll come back when I'm done. Your next paragraph is pure speculations and is plain wrong. No the richest didn't leave. A few cunt like Depardieu left and made a lot of noise about it, but that's all. But if you want to leave, feel free, nobody will stop you.
- cyrillevincey 13y ago
  100% agree.
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  > Taxes are NOT 60% for business, it's 30%. Oh come on, you know that when you sum up all taxes and regulations, it costs way more than 30%, it's more like 50% minimum. > It can go up to a bit less than 60% on personal incomes.That is if your are extremely rich How naive, when you make 2000€, you cost 4000€ to your employer. That means your real salary is 4000 € minus 50% that goes through taxes that your employer pays but really he's passing the costs on you unless you think he's paying you a free meal. So that's 50% already for everyone, then you have to subtract 20 to 30% on the 2000€. So yeah, my 60% is pretty accurate. > Your personal (and imho, stupid as fuck, even if I don't particularly like our government) opinion. First of all, no need to be so rude. Second, it is being insane. Their answer to everything is more tax even though this is killing the economy. It's clear now that France is governed by a theocracy, a new serfdom where God is Public spending, the clergé is the public workers that pay no taxes and get to retire early with big salaries and lots of privileges and the Tiers état is the people paying for the rest. http://leblogalupus.com/2013/10/09/charles-gave-la-france-est-gouvernee-par-une-theocratie/ http://leblogalupus.com/2013/10/09/charles-gave-la-france-es... > a doctor (she's one of the best in her domain, worldwide, fwiw). This cost me 21€ the first time and 7.5€ So one of the best doctors is paid 21€ and 7.5€? Wow, that's less than flipping burgers at your local burger joint. Do you do consulting at this price too? Anyway, this is an anecdotical evidence of yours. It's a fact that Securité social does not reimburse much any more and yet you still have to pay for it and get a private insurance on the side. This is well documented http://www.securite-sociale.info/ http://www.securite-sociale.info/ > it's either for a non-competition contract or that you fired people without being able to give a reason. Too bad for you, workers are a bit protected in this country. See, this is where we disagree. It is my company, my private property. I should be able to do as I please with it as long as don't mess with other's freedom, this is a constitutional right in the declaration of human rights, private property is sacred. I should be allowed to employ and stop employing whoever I want, whenever I want. This is why there is so much unemployment in France, it's so hard and costly to fire people that we'd rather not employ them. You think you're helping workers but you're not, you're creating more unemployment. Countries like Switzerland that don't have such "protection" have much less unemployment. > A few cunt like Depardieu left Are you serious? The richest man in France has left and many of the top richest famillies have left: LVMH, Lacoste, Peugeot etc. Not only that but most of our artists and sports men have left. Anyone who creates lots of wealth has left the country. Don't you see a wrong pattern here? How blind can one be. http://www.latribune.fr/vos-finances/impots/fiscalite/20111201trib000668201/decouvrez-la-liste-des-44-plus-grandes-fortunes-francaises-exilees-en-suisse.html http://www.latribune.fr/vos-finances/impots/fiscalite/201112...

p4bl0 13y ago

This is bullshit.

e40 13y ago
Yeah, the most judges here are communists/far left to begin with was where I got on the train.
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  Well, obviously you two are French statists who believe in their system.
  - cyrillevincey 13y ago
    ... aren't by McCarthy's son by any chance?
- cyrillevincey 13y ago
  +1, this guy did not sleep well last night...
- e40 13y ago
  Yikes, I meant "off the train" not on. Talk about a bad typo.

cyrillevincey 13y ago

You are confusing personal taxes (up to 60% if you're rich... and stupid) and corporate taxes (which ARE 33%). The rest of your post is just your own - subjective - opinions, but I can tell from what you think that you are NOT running a business in France. By the way, I've fired 4 people in the past 6 months, and I haven't got sued. It's a question of doing it by the rules.

VeejayRampay 13y ago
> If you're rich... and stupid Right. Cause God knows paying taxes is stupid. I hate being French when I read non-sense like that, people need to educate themselves on the reality of the French taxation system and what it entails instead of viewing it through the reductive and limited angle of "whaaaa whaaa the state is stealing my hard-earned money". You'll think about stupid next time you go to a hospital, next time you cough the measly 20 euros up at the doctor, next time you need to send your kid to school or daycare and all that stuff that "stupid people" pay for. For shame.
- cyrillevincey 13y ago
  Just saying that there are A LOT of fiscal optimizations - totally legal and publicly encouraged - to keep your taxes below 40%. Otherwise, I can't agree more with you about the chance of accessing amazingly good healthcare services for free in France. Here, Walter White would not have had to cook meth, after all...
xutopia 13y ago
I think he's folding in the "charges sociales" that companies have to pay out to the government when they offer a salary. From what I heard they're roughly 50% of the salary cost of each employee. I'm no expert though... could be different.
- cyrillevincey 13y ago
  For the record, 100€ net in the pocket of an employee corresponds to 180€ cost-to-company.

p4bl0 13y ago

You want me to argue? > taxes are killing (+60%) Taxes are NOT 60% for business, it's 30%. It can go up to a bit less than 60% on personal incomes. That is if your are extremely rich. In 2012, the average taxation was less than 6%. The 45% slice of imposition (which to date is the highest) applies only if you earn more than 500,000€, and only on your incomes above that threshold. For instance if you earn 1,000,000€ you will pay 458,140.05€ of taxes on incomes, which is a bit less than 46%. To get up to 60% of taxes on incomes, you have to be immensely rich, you won't be suffering from your contribution to society. > the State is bordering on insanity Your personal (and imho, stupid as fuck, even if I don't particularly like our government) opinion. > social security doesn't reimburse much anymore and yet you're forced to pay for it+a private insurance This couldn't be more wrong. I don't have a private insurance (nor what we call a "mutuelle" to be clear), I only have the minimum public social security. I went to the hospital twice last month, and both time got a small surgical act in addition to the consultation of a doctor (she's one of the best in her domain, worldwide, fwiw). This cost me 21€ the first time and 7.5€ the second time. Most of the medicine I had to take after that were reimbursed almost entirely. This is not a special case, this is the rule. > firing people is extremely costly, you can end up paying someone for years even though he's not doing anything anymore. Other people responded to that one. But I may add that if you end up paying people for years after they stop working for you it's either for a non-competition contract or that you fired people without being able to give a reason. Too bad for you, workers are a bit protected in this country. > you can get sued for firing someone and the judge will side by default with the employee, most judges here are communists/far left to begin with or at least socialist if you wish. Let me laugh a bit I'll come back when I'm done. Your next paragraph is pure speculations and is plain wrong. No the richest didn't leave. A few cunt like Depardieu left and made a lot of noise about it, but that's all. But if you want to leave, feel free, nobody will stop you.

cyrillevincey 13y ago
100% agree.
patrickaljord 13y ago
> Taxes are NOT 60% for business, it's 30%. Oh come on, you know that when you sum up all taxes and regulations, it costs way more than 30%, it's more like 50% minimum. > It can go up to a bit less than 60% on personal incomes.That is if your are extremely rich How naive, when you make 2000€, you cost 4000€ to your employer. That means your real salary is 4000 € minus 50% that goes through taxes that your employer pays but really he's passing the costs on you unless you think he's paying you a free meal. So that's 50% already for everyone, then you have to subtract 20 to 30% on the 2000€. So yeah, my 60% is pretty accurate. > Your personal (and imho, stupid as fuck, even if I don't particularly like our government) opinion. First of all, no need to be so rude. Second, it is being insane. Their answer to everything is more tax even though this is killing the economy. It's clear now that France is governed by a theocracy, a new serfdom where God is Public spending, the clergé is the public workers that pay no taxes and get to retire early with big salaries and lots of privileges and the Tiers état is the people paying for the rest. http://leblogalupus.com/2013/10/09/charles-gave-la-france-est-gouvernee-par-une-theocratie/ http://leblogalupus.com/2013/10/09/charles-gave-la-france-es... > a doctor (she's one of the best in her domain, worldwide, fwiw). This cost me 21€ the first time and 7.5€ So one of the best doctors is paid 21€ and 7.5€? Wow, that's less than flipping burgers at your local burger joint. Do you do consulting at this price too? Anyway, this is an anecdotical evidence of yours. It's a fact that Securité social does not reimburse much any more and yet you still have to pay for it and get a private insurance on the side. This is well documented http://www.securite-sociale.info/ http://www.securite-sociale.info/ > it's either for a non-competition contract or that you fired people without being able to give a reason. Too bad for you, workers are a bit protected in this country. See, this is where we disagree. It is my company, my private property. I should be able to do as I please with it as long as don't mess with other's freedom, this is a constitutional right in the declaration of human rights, private property is sacred. I should be allowed to employ and stop employing whoever I want, whenever I want. This is why there is so much unemployment in France, it's so hard and costly to fire people that we'd rather not employ them. You think you're helping workers but you're not, you're creating more unemployment. Countries like Switzerland that don't have such "protection" have much less unemployment. > A few cunt like Depardieu left Are you serious? The richest man in France has left and many of the top richest famillies have left: LVMH, Lacoste, Peugeot etc. Not only that but most of our artists and sports men have left. Anyone who creates lots of wealth has left the country. Don't you see a wrong pattern here? How blind can one be. http://www.latribune.fr/vos-finances/impots/fiscalite/20111201trib000668201/decouvrez-la-liste-des-44-plus-grandes-fortunes-francaises-exilees-en-suisse.html http://www.latribune.fr/vos-finances/impots/fiscalite/201112...