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I didn't mean to say Illustrator is bad b/c of the not openness but more because of the file format. Icons ---compared to other projects done with Illustrator--

by susi22 13y ago

I didn't mean to say Illustrator is bad b/c of the not openness but more because of the file format. Icons ---compared to other projects done with Illustrator--- are extremely simple and we could use simpler tools instead which means we can use a programming language (an appropriate one, not python etc) to define the languages. As long as we have the source and it is readable (hence my wish to use a DSL) people will contribute to it with pull request. The result of the kickstarter will not be contributable (except by a small fraction of people) This can give you a slight taste of a well done DSL which can produce EPS: http://www.piprime.fr/developpeur/asymptote/example-asy2d/generalites-asy2d/?posts_per_page=-1 http://www.piprime.fr/developpeur/asymptote/example-asy2d/ge... http://marris.org/asymptote/ http://marris.org/asymptote/ Asymptote also knows structs and overloading

bennyg 13y ago
Yeah but it's actually a lot of fun to design in Illustrator. I don't think the creators of this icon set would have wanted to do all of this stuff while not in Illustrator - or at least I can't imagine me wanting to do that. This is coming from an iOS engineer too.
- susi22 13y ago
  Yeah but it's more fun to click "edit" on a file in github. Propose the changes and click "submit pull request". Instead of: 1. Download current design file 2. Edit 3. Submit pull request 4. Repo owner downloads file 5. Repo owner figures out what has changed (somehow hopefully) and hopes nothing else was broken with the edit due to different versions, setups etc. 6. Repo owners accepts pull request (while the change cannot be seen in github since it can't diff .ai files).
  - bennyg 13y ago
    Here's where we differ. Adobe Illustrator is like a canvas on an easel. Visual manipulations appear right in front of you, and then you can dive in and inspect. Change a color easily and know if it's right immediately. Not commit, then look at a rendered version, notice it's off. Try again, commit and then attempt until it's right. That's a huge waste of time as a designer. It feels magical to edit and create in Illustrator to me, and I'm sorry that someone offering free .ai files isn't pristine enough for you. Your "editing" of a graphic file is still 4 steps, there's not much being cut out: 1. Click edit. 2. Propose changes. 3. Owner decides nothing is bad, or messes up other parts of the design. 4. Owner accepts pull request (still can't see the files in Github, because there is nothing for viewing graphical diffs anywhere yet)
    - susi22 13y ago
      You can do cool things with immediate updates: http://vimeo.com/36579366 http://vimeo.com/36579366 The great thing about hosting on github is that people can send pull request and you have real collaboration. That's alsmost impossible with Illustrator files. In reality many OSS is abondoned and change leaders or simply die. If you have a source that is accessible by 100% of the programmers (and with icons there is a huge crows who's interested) then your project probably won't die. Want will the kickstarter accomplish? Sure it'll give you great quality icons, but then what? What if the project is delivered and put open sourced? Is it going to be maintained indefinitely? For 2 years? 5 years? What about in 10 years? Can we still use it? But now we're really off topic, I'm just re-elaboration why open source (and line based source code) is better. I could also argue why documentation in Markdown is better than word for highly collaborative projects....
  - deleted 13y ago
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by susi22 13y ago

bennyg 13y ago

Yeah but it's actually a lot of fun to design in Illustrator. I don't think the creators of this icon set would have wanted to do all of this stuff while not in Illustrator - or at least I can't imagine me wanting to do that. This is coming from an iOS engineer too.

susi22 13y ago
Yeah but it's more fun to click "edit" on a file in github. Propose the changes and click "submit pull request". Instead of: 1. Download current design file 2. Edit 3. Submit pull request 4. Repo owner downloads file 5. Repo owner figures out what has changed (somehow hopefully) and hopes nothing else was broken with the edit due to different versions, setups etc. 6. Repo owners accepts pull request (while the change cannot be seen in github since it can't diff .ai files).
- bennyg 13y ago
  Here's where we differ. Adobe Illustrator is like a canvas on an easel. Visual manipulations appear right in front of you, and then you can dive in and inspect. Change a color easily and know if it's right immediately. Not commit, then look at a rendered version, notice it's off. Try again, commit and then attempt until it's right. That's a huge waste of time as a designer. It feels magical to edit and create in Illustrator to me, and I'm sorry that someone offering free .ai files isn't pristine enough for you. Your "editing" of a graphic file is still 4 steps, there's not much being cut out: 1. Click edit. 2. Propose changes. 3. Owner decides nothing is bad, or messes up other parts of the design. 4. Owner accepts pull request (still can't see the files in Github, because there is nothing for viewing graphical diffs anywhere yet)
  - susi22 13y ago
    You can do cool things with immediate updates: http://vimeo.com/36579366 http://vimeo.com/36579366 The great thing about hosting on github is that people can send pull request and you have real collaboration. That's alsmost impossible with Illustrator files. In reality many OSS is abondoned and change leaders or simply die. If you have a source that is accessible by 100% of the programmers (and with icons there is a huge crows who's interested) then your project probably won't die. Want will the kickstarter accomplish? Sure it'll give you great quality icons, but then what? What if the project is delivered and put open sourced? Is it going to be maintained indefinitely? For 2 years? 5 years? What about in 10 years? Can we still use it? But now we're really off topic, I'm just re-elaboration why open source (and line based source code) is better. I could also argue why documentation in Markdown is better than word for highly collaborative projects....
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]