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I feel like I'm facing the same problems but in a completely opposite context. He's in a stressful situation every day, unsure what's going to come next, and f

I feel like I'm facing the same problems but in a completely opposite context. He's in a stressful situation every day, unsure what's going to come next, and forced to imperfectly make decisions. His strategy for motivation comes from keeping his eyes on the prize and going with the flow. I'm in a completely stress free environment - every day blends in with the next; I can just do nothing one day and tell myself I will do it tomorrow. I'm financially stable enough to never be in a do-or-die situation. My passion for my project temporarily died somewhere after 30k lines of code. Yet, it is my dream to finish the project. I have to finish it, it's my self-designated job. But it's such a huge, abstract task, and I can just enjoy myself right now instead. There's literally no reward for working until after another year of it. It's so hard to stay focused and motivated when nothing is at stake.

sunir 13y ago
What if I gave you one hundred dollar bills and said this is all the money you had to spend. Once it's spent, it's spent, and you can never get any more. How much would you spend on movie ticket? A blissful escape, sure, but you probably have other things to do with your life. You're only going to live for maybe one hundred years at most, maybe many less. Spend your years wisely.
- lifeformed 13y ago
  I agree, I would be super motivated if that was the case, because it would give me a concrete deadline. But it's hard to simulate desperateness, because I could always bail out (unless I gave all my money away, which isn't a good idea). It's not like I'm rich or anything, I just saved up enough money to do exactly this (work on this project full time) for a while, and yet here I am, sitting around struggling to do it. I want to want to work hard. I just really need to learn self-discipline.
  - nyrina 13y ago
    I think giving all your money away is a great idea. To me, specifically. :) :)
  - neltnerb 13y ago
    It's extremely difficult to self-manage if you haven't been in a safe situation to experiment with it. Personally, I find that the only sensible and generally applicable solution is to set short-term goals based on a formally written project plan to yourself. You don't ever have to give that project plan to anyone else, but you should write it as well as you possibly can. It should be clear on what kinds of things are feasible to do, what is required, what you can do first to prove the concepts, and so on. I do this for every project I start, after struggling with the problem in graduate school a bit. It takes about a week per proposal to put something together of reasonably high quality, but by the end you actually probably have a very good sense of the strongest argument you can make to do the project as well as the weaknesses, as well as ideally a logical argument for why it might work based on citable evidence. This would also include things like "this experiment I can do" (translated to "this market idea I can test" in business) will generate some result that is clear and helpful in moving towards your medium term goal -- which is probably to either make enough money or be able to raise enough money to pay yourself and enough staff to move to the next medium term goal. Then take that medium term goal and break it down not into time-based goals but sensible sub-goals. If you want to build a web service, a first goal might be "I think that people have a use for... I can test that by building... and collect data using... if that works, then it's worth doing the second goal..." Break it down as small as is sensible to do, but limit this kind of strategizing so that you don't go really far down a road before putting it aside to sit and let you get a fresh perspective. Bounce it off others to see if they can poke holes in your strategy that you didn't think of. And so on. Anyway, it's not so much self-discipline as it is realizing that big goals are always changing and medium term goals are uncertain. You have to always be able to change those goals based on the actual data you collect. But the short term goals should be achievable. And it will take time to isolate what good short term goals should be. A good short term goal might be, to start, to make a good start on identifying short term goals...
    - lifeformed 13y ago
      That's a good idea - even though I'm in the middle of the project, and the project is big enough where a plan of the entire project wouldn't be feasible, I can at least do it for the chunk I am working on right now. I think just being explicit with my tasks would be a huge step. Right now everything is vague and kind of just in this "idea soup" in the back of my mind. Every time I pull out the next idea to work on, I realize I had all the wrong expectations the whole time.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  > Spend your years wisely. Before you can do that you have to spend a great deal of your years to become wise.
- cliffcrosland 13y ago
  This sort of monetary risk incentive has been very useful for me. There's software to do this. Have you tried Beeminder? I've used it to force myself to build positive habits, including daily exercise and side-project progress. There have been more than a few moments where I've awakened after 11pm realizing that I'd be charged $5 if I neglected to do push-ups during the next hour. In anger, I invariably got up and did them, but now I do them without hesitation each day. Pledge some money on Beeminder, and make yourself do a certain number of focused hours of work each week on your project. Even small financial risks are surprisingly motivational: "No way I'm letting Beeminder take my $5."
  - exceptione 13y ago
    Never heard of it, but per your recommendation I watched the intro video. A bit off-topic but... I never have seen such a horrible product video. I couldn't hear most what she said, not only because of the bad presentation but also because of the unnerving background music that makes the speech even more inaudible. Now it looks like im totally grumpy, but the concept seems nice. Just a reminder to beeminder to delete that awfull video clip.
udit99 13y ago
Have you tried releasing your project in small iterations instead of waiting for a year? Having users use the product that you're building and giving feedback on it is a motivator that works for me. Keeps reminding me __why__ I do what I do every day.
- lifeformed 13y ago
  Unfortunately, I can't really do that, due to the nature of the project. It's a game, and I'm building complex part of the engine, and it won't be interesting all until this giant chunk is complete. I have friends that I work with who motivate me, but we all had to move to opposite ends of the world for unrelated reasons, and so now we're working remotely.
mattschmulen 13y ago
cool story bro ... I stay motivated because if I'm not I will lose my job. this is a good attitude because: 1. If you work at a high performing corp the bar is set high and its a non trivial task to just keep ahead of losing your job. 2. Reminds you its a job, and your #1 job at any job is to do a good job. 3. If your not pushing to do better at your #1 job then its time to focus on your #2 Job, which is find a better job..
- shubb 13y ago
  That's kinda irrational. Your employer is expecting a certain return on your wages, and your job is to make that return. Anything past that is a bonus from their perspective, and might get a reward. If you are making an adequate return, but someone else might be able to make a better one, they will instead shuffle you into work where doing extra good doesn't generate much extra return. No sane employer fires good employees for not being exceptional. (If you are working at an unpleasant cull the bottom 10% type place, that's a pretty low bar)
dools 13y ago
Get some customers. If you can't get customers, get backers.
nephorider 13y ago
I usually go down through the "down to to do list way". This gives me a frame for working, and allows me to be in the state of mind of "this is a job, you signed for it, you do it"More than often some joy of working appears a few times after the struggling

sunir 13y ago

What if I gave you one hundred dollar bills and said this is all the money you had to spend. Once it's spent, it's spent, and you can never get any more. How much would you spend on movie ticket? A blissful escape, sure, but you probably have other things to do with your life. You're only going to live for maybe one hundred years at most, maybe many less. Spend your years wisely.

lifeformed 13y ago
I agree, I would be super motivated if that was the case, because it would give me a concrete deadline. But it's hard to simulate desperateness, because I could always bail out (unless I gave all my money away, which isn't a good idea). It's not like I'm rich or anything, I just saved up enough money to do exactly this (work on this project full time) for a while, and yet here I am, sitting around struggling to do it. I want to want to work hard. I just really need to learn self-discipline.
- nyrina 13y ago
  I think giving all your money away is a great idea. To me, specifically. :) :)
- neltnerb 13y ago
  It's extremely difficult to self-manage if you haven't been in a safe situation to experiment with it. Personally, I find that the only sensible and generally applicable solution is to set short-term goals based on a formally written project plan to yourself. You don't ever have to give that project plan to anyone else, but you should write it as well as you possibly can. It should be clear on what kinds of things are feasible to do, what is required, what you can do first to prove the concepts, and so on. I do this for every project I start, after struggling with the problem in graduate school a bit. It takes about a week per proposal to put something together of reasonably high quality, but by the end you actually probably have a very good sense of the strongest argument you can make to do the project as well as the weaknesses, as well as ideally a logical argument for why it might work based on citable evidence. This would also include things like "this experiment I can do" (translated to "this market idea I can test" in business) will generate some result that is clear and helpful in moving towards your medium term goal -- which is probably to either make enough money or be able to raise enough money to pay yourself and enough staff to move to the next medium term goal. Then take that medium term goal and break it down not into time-based goals but sensible sub-goals. If you want to build a web service, a first goal might be "I think that people have a use for... I can test that by building... and collect data using... if that works, then it's worth doing the second goal..." Break it down as small as is sensible to do, but limit this kind of strategizing so that you don't go really far down a road before putting it aside to sit and let you get a fresh perspective. Bounce it off others to see if they can poke holes in your strategy that you didn't think of. And so on. Anyway, it's not so much self-discipline as it is realizing that big goals are always changing and medium term goals are uncertain. You have to always be able to change those goals based on the actual data you collect. But the short term goals should be achievable. And it will take time to isolate what good short term goals should be. A good short term goal might be, to start, to make a good start on identifying short term goals...
  - lifeformed 13y ago
    That's a good idea - even though I'm in the middle of the project, and the project is big enough where a plan of the entire project wouldn't be feasible, I can at least do it for the chunk I am working on right now. I think just being explicit with my tasks would be a huge step. Right now everything is vague and kind of just in this "idea soup" in the back of my mind. Every time I pull out the next idea to work on, I realize I had all the wrong expectations the whole time.
foobarbazqux 13y ago
> Spend your years wisely. Before you can do that you have to spend a great deal of your years to become wise.
cliffcrosland 13y ago
This sort of monetary risk incentive has been very useful for me. There's software to do this. Have you tried Beeminder? I've used it to force myself to build positive habits, including daily exercise and side-project progress. There have been more than a few moments where I've awakened after 11pm realizing that I'd be charged $5 if I neglected to do push-ups during the next hour. In anger, I invariably got up and did them, but now I do them without hesitation each day. Pledge some money on Beeminder, and make yourself do a certain number of focused hours of work each week on your project. Even small financial risks are surprisingly motivational: "No way I'm letting Beeminder take my $5."
- exceptione 13y ago
  Never heard of it, but per your recommendation I watched the intro video. A bit off-topic but... I never have seen such a horrible product video. I couldn't hear most what she said, not only because of the bad presentation but also because of the unnerving background music that makes the speech even more inaudible. Now it looks like im totally grumpy, but the concept seems nice. Just a reminder to beeminder to delete that awfull video clip.

udit99 13y ago

Have you tried releasing your project in small iterations instead of waiting for a year? Having users use the product that you're building and giving feedback on it is a motivator that works for me. Keeps reminding me __why__ I do what I do every day.

lifeformed 13y ago
Unfortunately, I can't really do that, due to the nature of the project. It's a game, and I'm building complex part of the engine, and it won't be interesting all until this giant chunk is complete. I have friends that I work with who motivate me, but we all had to move to opposite ends of the world for unrelated reasons, and so now we're working remotely.

mattschmulen 13y ago

cool story bro ... I stay motivated because if I'm not I will lose my job. this is a good attitude because: 1. If you work at a high performing corp the bar is set high and its a non trivial task to just keep ahead of losing your job. 2. Reminds you its a job, and your #1 job at any job is to do a good job. 3. If your not pushing to do better at your #1 job then its time to focus on your #2 Job, which is find a better job..

shubb 13y ago
That's kinda irrational. Your employer is expecting a certain return on your wages, and your job is to make that return. Anything past that is a bonus from their perspective, and might get a reward. If you are making an adequate return, but someone else might be able to make a better one, they will instead shuffle you into work where doing extra good doesn't generate much extra return. No sane employer fires good employees for not being exceptional. (If you are working at an unpleasant cull the bottom 10% type place, that's a pretty low bar)

dools 13y ago

Get some customers. If you can't get customers, get backers.

nephorider 13y ago

I usually go down through the "down to to do list way". This gives me a frame for working, and allows me to be in the state of mind of "this is a job, you signed for it, you do it"More than often some joy of working appears a few times after the struggling