3 ms·

This makes me never want to leave the US. I fear that I will be scrutinized at the border and not be allowed back. Is so ridiculous I drive down the street when

This makes me never want to leave the US. I fear that I will be scrutinized at the border and not be allowed back. Is so ridiculous I drive down the street when a police officer gets behind me I get really anxious and will sometimes go off route just so they're not behind me. I was born in Germany to two American parents that were in the military. So I'm afraid they may send me back to "where I came from".

tadfisher 13y ago
You cannot be barred entry into the US if you can prove you are a US citizen. You may be required to submit to questioning, and you can be prosecuted if there are any warrants for your arrest or you are attempting to bring something illegal into the country, but that's it.
melling 13y ago
I'm a little confused. Are you a US citizen? If you're ever refused at the border, there are other channels. One guy at one point of entry doesn't ultimately decide your fate.
- tadfisher 13y ago
  You can't actually be refused at the border if you are a citizen.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    You can be detained indefinitely for no reason, even if you're a citizen. Habeas corpus and probable cause don't apply.
    - tadfisher 13y ago
      Are you referring to the 2012 NDAA? Because that specific provision (that denies habeas corpus under the AUMF) has yet to be tested in court, and is unlikely to pass Supreme Court review.
      - w1ntermute 13y ago
        From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception > The United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP), ICE-HSI Special Agents, and Coast Guard officers (E4 grade and above) who are all customs officers (those tasked with enforcing Title 19 of the United States Code) with the United States Department of Homeland Security, are permitted to search travelers and their belongings at the American border without probable cause or a warrant. And the "border" isn't just what you might think of as the border (https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-constitution-free-zone https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-co...): > According to the government, it is a 100-mile wide strip that wraps around the “external boundary” of the United States. Thus, we have a "constitution-free zone" in the US, where 197 million Americans reside (https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-zone-map https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-zone...). Within this region, the Fourth Amendment is invalid. If you Google the term "constitution-free zone", you can find numerous articles detailing the experiences various US citizens have had while traveling within the US (with no intention of crossing any national borders) of being stopped by federal agents from one of the groups listed above (CBP, ICE-HSI, Coast Guard) and being subjected to a search in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Also: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-seizures/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-...
        tadfisher 13y ago
        I understand, but none of what you cite refers to indefinite detention.
- chx 13y ago
  That's the border. What if they put him on a no fly list? There are stories of citizens stuck overseas because of that.

tadfisher 13y ago

You cannot be barred entry into the US if you can prove you are a US citizen. You may be required to submit to questioning, and you can be prosecuted if there are any warrants for your arrest or you are attempting to bring something illegal into the country, but that's it.

melling 13y ago

I'm a little confused. Are you a US citizen? If you're ever refused at the border, there are other channels. One guy at one point of entry doesn't ultimately decide your fate.

tadfisher 13y ago
You can't actually be refused at the border if you are a citizen.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  You can be detained indefinitely for no reason, even if you're a citizen. Habeas corpus and probable cause don't apply.
  - tadfisher 13y ago
    Are you referring to the 2012 NDAA? Because that specific provision (that denies habeas corpus under the AUMF) has yet to be tested in court, and is unlikely to pass Supreme Court review.
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception > The United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP), ICE-HSI Special Agents, and Coast Guard officers (E4 grade and above) who are all customs officers (those tasked with enforcing Title 19 of the United States Code) with the United States Department of Homeland Security, are permitted to search travelers and their belongings at the American border without probable cause or a warrant. And the "border" isn't just what you might think of as the border (https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-constitution-free-zone https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-co...): > According to the government, it is a 100-mile wide strip that wraps around the “external boundary” of the United States. Thus, we have a "constitution-free zone" in the US, where 197 million Americans reside (https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-zone-map https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-zone...). Within this region, the Fourth Amendment is invalid. If you Google the term "constitution-free zone", you can find numerous articles detailing the experiences various US citizens have had while traveling within the US (with no intention of crossing any national borders) of being stopped by federal agents from one of the groups listed above (CBP, ICE-HSI, Coast Guard) and being subjected to a search in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Also: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-seizures/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-...
      - tadfisher 13y ago
        I understand, but none of what you cite refers to indefinite detention.
chx 13y ago
That's the border. What if they put him on a no fly list? There are stories of citizens stuck overseas because of that.