6 ms·

Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

55 points by siliconesoul 13y ago

julien_c 13y ago
What's the business model for operators/buyers of the Bitcoin machine?
- brd 13y ago
  "The operator of the machine, be it the distributor or individual owner is responsible for loading the machine with bitcoins. In other words, he who holds the private key." "The operator of the machine sets the fees and ticker prices. That too is easily set via the administrative interface."
mikkom 13y ago
I'm not sure if the "compact size" is such a good thing - There is a reason why ATMs are so big.. (A junkie with a crowbar)
- ics 13y ago
  Internal GPS should be reasonably junkie-proof, no?
  - liotier 13y ago
    Maybe, but non-junkies will cover the antenna before they rip the device away... Which will be difficult since the internal steel vault is bolted to wherever the device stands.
- sktrdie 13y ago
  I would love to see these in airports! There's already lots of security there so no need to make them huge.
  - haakon 13y ago
    I'd like to see the reverse in airports: Land in some strange country, immediately get local currency for bitcoins.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - csomar 13y ago
      The device might be interesting though. If you have some remaining bills and you are lazy to convert them. I have, maybe, $100 of cash in many different currencies remaining from my travels.
- wereHamster 13y ago
  The machine looks small, can't someone just pick it up and run? No. The machine will be smash and grab resistant. It is not meant for unattended or outdoor use, but it will have thick metal mounting plates, a dual locking system and an internal strong box for the cash.
ok_craig 13y ago
I used one of these the other day to try to buy $1 worth of bitcoin. It spun forever and I had to leave. Don't know if it ever actually went through or not, but it should've given me a timeout message way before 5 minutes of standing there.
- luke_s 13y ago
  Really? I'm kind of amazed by this whole thing - I never thought there would be a desire to purchase bitcoins in real life with physical cash. I always thought of it more as a online thing people would do via exchanges, smart phone apps, etc. If you don't mind me asking - Where was the machine? Why were you buying bitcoins there vs just using an online exchange?
  - ok_craig 13y ago
    It was at the money2020 conference and I work in the bitcoin industry so I was naturally curious.
  - lewispollard 13y ago
    I guess it adds another layer on anonymity to it. Online exchanges often require your name and address, and even if they don't, you're probably going to be funding it via a debit card or bank account which can be traced back to you. By using cash, there's no way of identifying who purchased the bitcoins (except via cctv I guess)
  - selectstar 13y ago
    Whatever the location, you can imagine the CCTV that will be around them when they appear in the wild.
user24 13y ago
I think "Bitcoin ATM" should feature in the title.
jwr 13y ago
It's not a "Bitcoin ATM". It's a "Buy Bitcoins for cash" machine. And there is a huge difference. I'll get excited when I see a machine that DISPENSES cash for Bitcoin, anonymously. That will be a breakthrough. For the moment, in spite of many claims, Bitcoin remains the most easily trackable currency and there is no way that I know of to get money out of the Bitcoin system in a way that can't be tracked.
- sktrdie 13y ago
  I wonder what the implications are of doing BTC->FIAT.
- ccarpenterg 13y ago
  The definition of ATM From Wikipedia: is an electronic telecommunications device that enables the clients of a financial institution to perform financial transactions without the need for a cashier, human clerk or bank teller.
  - jwr 13y ago
    Yes, I was certain somebody would nitpick on the details. Somebody always does. But I think I was very clear in describing what I think the difference is, and I also think that most people when asked to describe an "ATM" would not describe a machine that takes your money, but rather one that dispenses it.
    - ddoolin 13y ago
      Even the full name of "ATM" doesn't limit itself to withdrawals, just as Tellers have never been limited to withdrawals. Much the way that international ATMS allow you to "buy" the local currency for whatever currency may be in your account.
- user24 13y ago
  > there is no way that I know of to get money out of the Bitcoin system in a way that can't be tracked. https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ > LocalBitcoins.com is a marketplace for trading bitcoins locally to cash or online payments of your choice.
oleganza 13y ago
It's a bitcoin vending machine. Owner of a bar/cafe/shop can accept bitcoins for payments and load them in this machine to convert them to cash. Those who want to spend bitcoins don't need to find those who want to buy them. Shops have easier way to accept and convert bitcoins into local currency => more places to spend bitcoins => more places where to buy bitcoins => more people using bitcoins => value grows => more shop owners are interested in keeping some BTC as an investment => less need for local currency => less friction => more bitcoin adoption => local currencies die out of hyperinflation (aka massive sell off) => fully deflationary economy => we all die in a deflationary spiral (not really ;-)
- michaelmior 13y ago
  The machine doesn't do BTC to cash, but rather the other way around.
  - idlephilosopher 13y ago
    Indeed, but a cafe owner can accept bitcoins as payment for their goods, and then sell those same bitcoins to the public via the machine. This takes away some of the friction from bitcoins becoming just another payment form like credit cards.
    - michaelmior 13y ago
      Good point. I hadn't thought of that workflow :)
  - oleganza 13y ago
    When I said "owner can load BTC in machine to convert to cash", I meant that people from street will put in cash for his coins.
jzwinck 13y ago
This machine accepts tons of world currencies. This will be much to the disadvantage of its owner, who will now have to try to change $20 in each of a dozen currencies to the local fiat currency. Doing this will be somewhere within a triangle of difficult, annoying, and expensive. Once owners figure this out, they will probably demand a way to program their machines to reject most currencies, just like everyone else does. Accepting "currencies from over 200 countries" is not a good thing when there aren't that many countries in the world with currency you'd want to hold. Nor does it reassure us about the machine's ability to reject counterfeit notes--owners won't be able to verify notes they don't normally use, and BTC will ensure that fraudulent depositors have low risk of being caught.
- nly 13y ago
  I think it means the note acceptor is physically capable of recognising notes from 200 countries. You presumably only configure it to accept notes from one currency at a time.
- ddoolin 13y ago
  Considering you have to be physically present to use this, I think this is almost a non-issue, considering the huge majority of users will be carrying the currency of wherever the machine is located.

55 points by siliconesoul 13y ago

julien_c 13y ago

What's the business model for operators/buyers of the Bitcoin machine?

brd 13y ago
"The operator of the machine, be it the distributor or individual owner is responsible for loading the machine with bitcoins. In other words, he who holds the private key." "The operator of the machine sets the fees and ticker prices. That too is easily set via the administrative interface."

mikkom 13y ago

I'm not sure if the "compact size" is such a good thing - There is a reason why ATMs are so big.. (A junkie with a crowbar)

ics 13y ago
Internal GPS should be reasonably junkie-proof, no?
- liotier 13y ago
  Maybe, but non-junkies will cover the antenna before they rip the device away... Which will be difficult since the internal steel vault is bolted to wherever the device stands.
sktrdie 13y ago
I would love to see these in airports! There's already lots of security there so no need to make them huge.
- haakon 13y ago
  I'd like to see the reverse in airports: Land in some strange country, immediately get local currency for bitcoins.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - csomar 13y ago
    The device might be interesting though. If you have some remaining bills and you are lazy to convert them. I have, maybe, $100 of cash in many different currencies remaining from my travels.
wereHamster 13y ago
The machine looks small, can't someone just pick it up and run? No. The machine will be smash and grab resistant. It is not meant for unattended or outdoor use, but it will have thick metal mounting plates, a dual locking system and an internal strong box for the cash.

ok_craig 13y ago

I used one of these the other day to try to buy $1 worth of bitcoin. It spun forever and I had to leave. Don't know if it ever actually went through or not, but it should've given me a timeout message way before 5 minutes of standing there.

luke_s 13y ago
Really? I'm kind of amazed by this whole thing - I never thought there would be a desire to purchase bitcoins in real life with physical cash. I always thought of it more as a online thing people would do via exchanges, smart phone apps, etc. If you don't mind me asking - Where was the machine? Why were you buying bitcoins there vs just using an online exchange?
- ok_craig 13y ago
  It was at the money2020 conference and I work in the bitcoin industry so I was naturally curious.
- lewispollard 13y ago
  I guess it adds another layer on anonymity to it. Online exchanges often require your name and address, and even if they don't, you're probably going to be funding it via a debit card or bank account which can be traced back to you. By using cash, there's no way of identifying who purchased the bitcoins (except via cctv I guess)
- selectstar 13y ago
  Whatever the location, you can imagine the CCTV that will be around them when they appear in the wild.

user24 13y ago

I think "Bitcoin ATM" should feature in the title.

jwr 13y ago

It's not a "Bitcoin ATM". It's a "Buy Bitcoins for cash" machine. And there is a huge difference. I'll get excited when I see a machine that DISPENSES cash for Bitcoin, anonymously. That will be a breakthrough. For the moment, in spite of many claims, Bitcoin remains the most easily trackable currency and there is no way that I know of to get money out of the Bitcoin system in a way that can't be tracked.

sktrdie 13y ago
I wonder what the implications are of doing BTC->FIAT.
ccarpenterg 13y ago
The definition of ATM From Wikipedia: is an electronic telecommunications device that enables the clients of a financial institution to perform financial transactions without the need for a cashier, human clerk or bank teller.
- jwr 13y ago
  Yes, I was certain somebody would nitpick on the details. Somebody always does. But I think I was very clear in describing what I think the difference is, and I also think that most people when asked to describe an "ATM" would not describe a machine that takes your money, but rather one that dispenses it.
  - ddoolin 13y ago
    Even the full name of "ATM" doesn't limit itself to withdrawals, just as Tellers have never been limited to withdrawals. Much the way that international ATMS allow you to "buy" the local currency for whatever currency may be in your account.
user24 13y ago
> there is no way that I know of to get money out of the Bitcoin system in a way that can't be tracked. https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ > LocalBitcoins.com is a marketplace for trading bitcoins locally to cash or online payments of your choice.

oleganza 13y ago

It's a bitcoin vending machine. Owner of a bar/cafe/shop can accept bitcoins for payments and load them in this machine to convert them to cash. Those who want to spend bitcoins don't need to find those who want to buy them. Shops have easier way to accept and convert bitcoins into local currency => more places to spend bitcoins => more places where to buy bitcoins => more people using bitcoins => value grows => more shop owners are interested in keeping some BTC as an investment => less need for local currency => less friction => more bitcoin adoption => local currencies die out of hyperinflation (aka massive sell off) => fully deflationary economy => we all die in a deflationary spiral (not really ;-)

michaelmior 13y ago
The machine doesn't do BTC to cash, but rather the other way around.
- idlephilosopher 13y ago
  Indeed, but a cafe owner can accept bitcoins as payment for their goods, and then sell those same bitcoins to the public via the machine. This takes away some of the friction from bitcoins becoming just another payment form like credit cards.
  - michaelmior 13y ago
    Good point. I hadn't thought of that workflow :)
- oleganza 13y ago
  When I said "owner can load BTC in machine to convert to cash", I meant that people from street will put in cash for his coins.

jzwinck 13y ago

This machine accepts tons of world currencies. This will be much to the disadvantage of its owner, who will now have to try to change $20 in each of a dozen currencies to the local fiat currency. Doing this will be somewhere within a triangle of difficult, annoying, and expensive. Once owners figure this out, they will probably demand a way to program their machines to reject most currencies, just like everyone else does. Accepting "currencies from over 200 countries" is not a good thing when there aren't that many countries in the world with currency you'd want to hold. Nor does it reassure us about the machine's ability to reject counterfeit notes--owners won't be able to verify notes they don't normally use, and BTC will ensure that fraudulent depositors have low risk of being caught.

nly 13y ago
I think it means the note acceptor is physically capable of recognising notes from 200 countries. You presumably only configure it to accept notes from one currency at a time.
ddoolin 13y ago
Considering you have to be physically present to use this, I think this is almost a non-issue, considering the huge majority of users will be carrying the currency of wherever the machine is located.