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I worked at one of the bigger POS vendors in the very early 2000s. The primary attribute of these folks seems to be how cheap they are. The 2 groups here woul

I worked at one of the bigger POS vendors in the very early 2000s. The primary attribute of these folks seems to be how cheap they are. The 2 groups here would spend 100K a year for a Java Developer and then supply NO tools. The project I was on was still using Borland tools from the early '90s, including the Borland database engine. Debugging was next to impossible, especially when you used the networked "features." What was really funny was they kept buying other companies to get their POS systems, but they could not manage to get one that worked as well as the old Borland based "thing"... Java, fail C#, fail Modern C++, fail It was rather amusing, especially after they chased off all the decent, experienced in the field programmers they had that they wouldn't allow to write the new stuff. They kept trying to buy it and failing. The only thing I've seen worse is all the "video store management" software out there in the days before Blockbuster got big. Mom and Pop video stores were REALLY unwilling to spend any decent money on good software. I'm kinda glad about that as that's what kept me alive in the very early '90s, fixing all those Clipper, Dbase, Paradox and Flex "applications".

moron4hire 13y ago
So basically it's the same reason most software sucks: because most companies suck. Thanks for your insight, I appreciate it. Years ago, when I was helping out my favorite bar get back on their feet, I had thought it would be a good idea to develop a POS system. I wasn't capable of it at the time, I was just out of college and knew very little about running a project. Nowadays, I've got quite a bit of experience in inventory and ERP systems, but I also understand the market a little better now. For one thing, the people who complain the loudest are often the least willing to pay more for better. This all got started because my business partner and I were doing some on-the-ground research into what makes a small business owner tick. We have an investor who has a Great Idea that is completely unworkable without a ton of data that these sorts of places are either uncomfortable providing or unwilling to put in the effort of providing. And one of the constant refrains we heard in our interviews was that these people hated their POS system, knew it was partly their fault for not using it correctly, but didn't have the time or inclination to get into it more. We're talking owners of walk-in wine stores and pet grooming shops. Places where the owner is behind the counter, running the place, or directly managing the staff. They all opened their businesses because the business focus was something they loved, but they ended up spending most of their time wrangling data systems and tax compliance. It's a major frustration point for them and we'd like to do something about it. Do you have any insights into the types of support contracts that these sort of places are running? I'm considering trying to sell my services as "labor for hire" to help small business owners clean up and figure out how to best use their POS. It's something I could get bootstrapped on right away and I think it would build relationships that could lead to more business opportunities. And it seems to fill the need that most of these owners have, in that they know that their systems are a mess but they don't have the time to do anything about it. But I'm concerned that the typical POS company has their customers locked into a support contract that would not allow a 3rd party access to the system.
- fredsanford 13y ago
  Check out Sturgeons law... 90% of everything is crap. Some think he was an optimist! :) You've hit a few nails on the head, especially with the loudest complainers being the least likely to spend money and the unwillingness to expend any effort. What I noticed with the few clients I visited for the POS vendor was that the owners weren't busy, they were lazy and cheap. If your idea man's idea involves getting people to do anything besides say yes or no on the phone, I wouldn't bother unless you meet face to face with a few people that are really enthusiastic and prove they're willing to make an effort. They will just frustrate you and make you hate life otherwise. This is especially true for any kind of banking or financial business such as mortgage brokers or credit reporting agencies. I have yet to see a group of people less willing to spend money or to try to cheat you out of it. Restaurant and bar owners would be second on my list. I didn't see much of the support portion of the POS business because the majority of the people were in a different state, but, more than 1/3 of the employees were in the training and support department at this particular company. A support contract was required for any big business simply because the customers wanted a neck to choke when something went wrong. Developers could intuit a fair amount about what was going on with the customers due to the problem tickets and CRM entries we saw. If not for the support/training revenue I suspect the POS corp I worked for would have been out of business years ago. However, they had some huge customers that just wouldn't buy anything without a support contract. The mom-and-pop customers paid per incident and screamed and hollered the whole time. The large corps are locked into the POS support dept. The mom-and-pops are not, but... I don't think you want to deal with them...
karlkatzke 13y ago
Oh. God. Don't remind me. Source: Former Rentrak employee.

moron4hire 13y ago

So basically it's the same reason most software sucks: because most companies suck. Thanks for your insight, I appreciate it. Years ago, when I was helping out my favorite bar get back on their feet, I had thought it would be a good idea to develop a POS system. I wasn't capable of it at the time, I was just out of college and knew very little about running a project. Nowadays, I've got quite a bit of experience in inventory and ERP systems, but I also understand the market a little better now. For one thing, the people who complain the loudest are often the least willing to pay more for better. This all got started because my business partner and I were doing some on-the-ground research into what makes a small business owner tick. We have an investor who has a Great Idea that is completely unworkable without a ton of data that these sorts of places are either uncomfortable providing or unwilling to put in the effort of providing. And one of the constant refrains we heard in our interviews was that these people hated their POS system, knew it was partly their fault for not using it correctly, but didn't have the time or inclination to get into it more. We're talking owners of walk-in wine stores and pet grooming shops. Places where the owner is behind the counter, running the place, or directly managing the staff. They all opened their businesses because the business focus was something they loved, but they ended up spending most of their time wrangling data systems and tax compliance. It's a major frustration point for them and we'd like to do something about it. Do you have any insights into the types of support contracts that these sort of places are running? I'm considering trying to sell my services as "labor for hire" to help small business owners clean up and figure out how to best use their POS. It's something I could get bootstrapped on right away and I think it would build relationships that could lead to more business opportunities. And it seems to fill the need that most of these owners have, in that they know that their systems are a mess but they don't have the time to do anything about it. But I'm concerned that the typical POS company has their customers locked into a support contract that would not allow a 3rd party access to the system.

fredsanford 13y ago
Check out Sturgeons law... 90% of everything is crap. Some think he was an optimist! :) You've hit a few nails on the head, especially with the loudest complainers being the least likely to spend money and the unwillingness to expend any effort. What I noticed with the few clients I visited for the POS vendor was that the owners weren't busy, they were lazy and cheap. If your idea man's idea involves getting people to do anything besides say yes or no on the phone, I wouldn't bother unless you meet face to face with a few people that are really enthusiastic and prove they're willing to make an effort. They will just frustrate you and make you hate life otherwise. This is especially true for any kind of banking or financial business such as mortgage brokers or credit reporting agencies. I have yet to see a group of people less willing to spend money or to try to cheat you out of it. Restaurant and bar owners would be second on my list. I didn't see much of the support portion of the POS business because the majority of the people were in a different state, but, more than 1/3 of the employees were in the training and support department at this particular company. A support contract was required for any big business simply because the customers wanted a neck to choke when something went wrong. Developers could intuit a fair amount about what was going on with the customers due to the problem tickets and CRM entries we saw. If not for the support/training revenue I suspect the POS corp I worked for would have been out of business years ago. However, they had some huge customers that just wouldn't buy anything without a support contract. The mom-and-pop customers paid per incident and screamed and hollered the whole time. The large corps are locked into the POS support dept. The mom-and-pops are not, but... I don't think you want to deal with them...

karlkatzke 13y ago

Oh. God. Don't remind me. Source: Former Rentrak employee.