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South African Dept of Education effectively bans FOSS

• adestefan 13y ago
  SA is South Africa for anyone else who is wondering.
  • tonteldoos 13y ago
    Fixed now ;)
• joseph_cooney 13y ago
  I had to drill into the PDF linked from the article to learn that SA (in this case) refers to the Republic of South Africa.
  • tonteldoos 13y ago
    My bad...I only realised a few minutes ago it could be South Australia (and definitely a few others) too...
• auctiontheory 13y ago
  It's not just a technologically absurd decision, the resulting expense is a terrible injustice for the children of South Africa. The Evil Empire never stops. The next time you hear someone blather on about the Gates Foundation, tell them about this story.
  • Nanzikambe 13y ago
    This is probably a dumb question, but why is your text in gray?
    • isxek 13y ago
      His comment was downvoted by other users. (Not me, though - I don't have enough rep/karma points yet.)
    • chris_wot 13y ago
      Someone downvoted him.
• kaonashi 13y ago
  Delphi… Delphi? Delphi?!?!
  • rurounijones 13y ago
    I am really having trouble understanding how anyone could choose Delphi without some sort of corruption going on.
    • tonteldoos 13y ago
      Turbo Pascal was the standard when I was in high school (matriculated in 98). No idea what has been used in the interrim, although the article makes it look like Java, among other things. If this hadn't been the case, I could understand Delphi, but it makes very little sense now.
      • foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Pascal is a pretty good teaching language, Java is hopelessly complex. Delphi is too bloated for intro stuff. Simple, featureless, procedural languages that are not C are pretty good for beginners.
        • tonteldoos 13y ago
          I'd be tempted to agree, but in that case you can even look at things like VB (in whichever flavour). You would need to somehow keep the subjects relevant to the current environment too, otherwise the clued up kids will get bored, and the less clued up ones will be more clued up, but in mostly irrelevant tech (school IT doesn't teach abstract computer science - it teaches stuff you can use to a degree).
          • deleted 13y ago
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        • btilly 13y ago
          It is worth noting that Pascal was originally intended as an extremely portable language to teach structured programming. It was only later that people began actually using it for real stuff. The key to its portability was that it shipped with an interpreter that would run under a simple bytecode machine. Implement that bytecode and you could run Pascal on virtually anything. Back in 1970, this was a pretty useful feature.
• bdcravens 13y ago
  made me as angry as I have ever been in my life Wow - if the author has lived a life where software limitations are the greatest injustice experienced, then I am truly jealous.
  • EtienneK 13y ago
    No, I think he's mad about the blatant corruption behind the decision. Our government does't even hide it anymore.
    • deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
      • microcolonel 13y ago
        Providing enormous incentives for doing evil cannot be excused simply because enormous non-liable government-created fictional organizations naturally take advantage of said incentives.
        • deleted 13y ago
          [deleted]
      • deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
• all2well 13y ago
  The title makes this out to be worse than it actually is: SA didn't actually ban all software under permissive licenses, but requires the use of non-free software to complete its courses. Though I'm not extremely in-tune with SA politics/education, I can't imagine they have much money, making it all the stranger that they'd lock themselves into licensing with Microsoft instead of using free software.
  • tonteldoos 13y ago
    Re the title: yes, and no. At first glance it seems alarmist, but if you take into account the wider implications (no exposure to free alternatives, extra cost to a population mired in poverty, and general lack of exposure to IT for large parts of the population), it's not too far from the truth. Funding for the education department has been increased drastically over the last decade or so, but misappropriation of funds, mismanagement, corruption, ineptitude, geographical separation, lack of proper oversight, and just the sheer pressure on the system in terms of the amount of learners it needs to support means this is just another thing that reduces the value for the learners from tax money.
• diadara 13y ago
  Why don't anyone listen to rms ? http://www.gnu.org/education/education.html http://www.gnu.org/education/education.html
  • Mikeb85 13y ago
    The more time that goes by, the more I agree with RMS (and the less crazy he seems)...
  • rimantas 13y ago
    How do you listen to him after gems like this: "Free Software supports education, proprietary software forbids education"? You know what? I got my education without software free or proprietary. I also saw many getting education and knowledge using proprietary software. Does Internet Explorer ban you from going to wikipedia or coursera? Heck, I even educated myself about free and open source software using Windows. Model of the world where FOSS is at the center of the universe and rms is the brightest star in it is hardly correct.
• Nanzikambe 13y ago
  As an IT professional that has lived in RSA and several other countries in the region, I have to say this is absolutely common place. Local industry giants with preferred partner/solution provider status with <INSERT GIANT CORP HERE> will lobby and get F/OSS solutions knocked out of the running especially where public tenders are involved. They will of course then use the corrupt officials co-opted into this process to milk the budget for absurdly expensive solutions to non-existent problems. A long time ago, in a country I won't name, I was contracted to provide local support for the installations of PCs in rural schools. Upon turning up at the regional center, I had access to a warehouse with a gigantic stack of PCs to be delivered. I merrily went about installing them at every school locally. I've never had more fun or a better challenge, every installation was unique. One site needed a full solar installation because of proximity to a township where power theft was rampant meant electricity on the schools side was virtually never available. At another site, I teamed up with a local carpenter to build 30 simple desks and benches, leaving the hardware sitting on bare concrete floors seemed absurd. For seven months this went on, I never saw another contractor doing the same as I did, yet the pile of PCs diminished so I assumed there must be several others. I queried to find out who they were so we could coordinate, I didn't want to spend hours driving to a site only to find they'd already been. That never happened and I never did get a response. The problems begun when it came to more remote areas. Firstly there was significantly more hardware per student allocated for the rural areas, than urban areas, which was puzzling. Secondly I was not permitted to go and install them, I was told my fuel expenses wouldn't be covered. When I offered to waive those, I was told there was no point, because they would require upgrades shortly. The vendor advised we leave them another two months and they would have the service packs rolled out in the central storage site, then the hardware could be delivered. Their stated intention was to save the local govt money. How very noble. Over the course of the next month, that pile of undeliverable hardware diminished significantly as the various people from the purchasing process cashed in by selling it to local vendors on the cheap, some of it was probably re-exported. Who knows. Nobody cares, there was no investigation, that was over a decade ago - the entire process has probably repeated several times since then. It's absurd. It's arrogant. It's corrupt. It's ultimately detrimental to everybody involved and robs the most desperate of a resource that just might have lifted them out of poverty. It's Africa. Sorry for the ramble, I never can just explain how much I love and hate that place. Edit: spellin'
• buyx 13y ago
  I can't get to to the article, but I've read about the issue elsewhere. This outrage is a bit misplaced: 1) South African teachers/vendors/Education Departments lack the skills to manage non-Microsoft systems. Yes it shouldn't be that way, but it is. 2) Java is not really a great first programming language (see Joel on JavaSchools). Pascal, and, later Delphi have been taught for years, and are well understood by teachers. They should probably just dump Delphi, and stick to Pascal. Attempts to look "relevant" end up looking foolish. In the early-mid 1990's, when I was in what's today called grade 8 and 9 I did LOGO, for non-examinable Computer Studies, and it was brilliant. Although I didn't choose Computer Studies for my later school years(where Pascal was used), when I got to university, my positive early experiences drew me back into the world of CS. I doubt I would have gotten the same visceral thrill that I got from LOGO, if I had to wrestle with AWT or Swing at the time. School Computer Studies is NOT meant to be a gateway to a career, and there are plenty of post-school options for people who want to become programmers. Computer Studies isn't even a prerequisite for university CS - everything is taught from scratch again. It also seems like recent graduates of some of the insitutions ("Universities of Technology", formerly Technikons) that supposedly focus on carreer preparedness struggle with concepts like writing loops. Perhaps these Technikons and programming colleges should also focus on the basics first, before worrying about "career readiness". SA schooling is a mess. Maths and science teachers don't understand their subjects. Teacher unions obstruct reform. We have sunk to the bottom in the world rankings. This particular issue is a meaningless distraction.
  • Nanzikambe 13y ago
    Yes indeed, the freedom to chose a F/OSS alternative in a environment where software is 60-70% of the TCO of a PC, is a BAD thing because learning isn't in the job description of teachers. I do disagree with this oft regurgitated anecdotal (sorry in advance) shite :-P
    • disputin 13y ago
      "I do disagree with this oft regurgitated anecdotal (sorry in advance) shite :-P" "A long time ago, in a country I won't name, I was contracted to provide..." :P
• ismail 13y ago
  while the south african govt say they support oss and all gov departments ahouod be using it, in practice they hardley ever implement oss. there is actually a project on git hub to use information access laws to perform a ln audit on the use of oss Using MS office makes sense, since majority of businesses use MS office. Though I would question the use of delphi, someone else posted that delphi is popular in South Africa. As one, I disagree most of the code still being written in delphi is mostly legacy code. The delphi dev shops have since moved on to .net for e.g my first job was a co that used delphi. one of the biggest users of delphi in za (mr price) , now mostly do their dev in .net I think a language like python or ruby would be a much better option.
  • ismail 13y ago
    Sorry about the repeat post. Posted from one of the mobile apps seemed to have messed up somehow.
• ismail 13y ago
  while the south african govt say they support oss and all gov departments ahouod be using it, in practice they hardley ever implement oss. there is actually a project on git hub to use information access laws to perform a ln audit on the use of oss Using MS office makes sense, since majority of businesses use MS office. Though I would question the use of delphi, someone else posted that delphi is popular in South Africa. As one, I disagree most of the code still being written in delphi is mostly legacy code. The delphi dev shops have since moved on to .net for e.g my first job was a co that used delphi. one of the biggest users of delphi in za (mr price) , now mostly do their dev in .net I think a language like python or ruby would be a much better option.
• ismail 13y ago
  while the south african govt say they support oss and all gov departments ahouod be using it, in practice they hardley ever implement oss. there is actually a project on git hub to use information access laws to perform a ln audit on the use of oss Using MS office makes sense, since majority of businesses use MS office. Though I would question the use of delphi, someone else posted that delphi is popular in South Africa. As one, I disagree most of the code still being written in delphi is mostly legacy code. The delphi dev shops have since moved on to .net for e.g my first job was a co that used delphi. one of the biggest users of delphi in za (mr price) , now mostly do their dev in .net I think a language like python or ruby would be a much better option.