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IQ tests are notoriously hard to make. And they don't measure IQ, so much as what the tester considers IQ. An amusing story. There was an IQ comparisson betwee

by Ygg2 13y ago

IQ tests are notoriously hard to make. And they don't measure IQ, so much as what the tester considers IQ. An amusing story. There was an IQ comparisson between rural and urban areas and the finding was that people in rural areas do worse on IQ test. But one psychologist thought that this can't be true. So he went back to test and realized that IQ test that were given to rural/urban areas were same. The people from rural areas did worse on the written part of exams, because the rural areas lacked schools and children started learning/reading much later. Once he went back and revised the tests, removing most of test that had to do with reading and generally type of thought that rural children have less encounter. Conclusion - the old IQ test didn't measure intelligence, unless you can increase intelligence by going to a better school, in which case, that isn't intelligence but knowledge.

rprospero 13y ago
There's another famous, possibly apocryphal, story about an IQ test with the question: Which of the following doesn't belong: a) Basketball b) Polo c) Hockey d) Billiards The answer is obviously Basketball, since it's the only sport that doesn't use a stick to hit anything. Except the answer is obviously Polo, since it's the only one with horses. Except the answer is obviously Hockey, since it's the only one with a puck instead of a ball. Except the answer is obviously Billiards, since it's the only one without a team. In case you're curious about the RIGHT answer, the test found that Canadians and Americans living in colder climates were slightly smarter than average.
- wslh 13y ago
  Following your story I love this scene from Kaspar Hauser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAnOi0fnxuE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAnOi0fnxuE From the subtitles: The Professor here has come all this way to ask you a question. He wants to see how well you can think... ...and what you have learned in these two years... ...and whether you can think logically. Will you answer him? - Yes! - Good. Kaspar... ...let's pretend that this is a village. In this village live people who tell only the truth. Here is another village. The people here only tell lies. Two paths run from these villages to where you are standing... ...and you are at the crossroads. A man comes along, and you want to know which village he comes from... ...the village of the truthtellers or the village of the liars. Now in order to solve this problem, to solve it logically... ...you have one question, and only one. What is the question? That's too difficult for him, how can he know that. I admit, the question is thorny. If you ask the man whether he comes from the village of truth... ...and he does, then he will say, truthfully, yes. But if he comes from the village of lies, he will lie... ...and also answer yes! Yet there exists one question which will solve the problem. That's much to hard, too complicated. You have one question, Kaspar... ...and only one, to solve this problem of logic. I wouldn't know either. If you can't think of the question... ...then I shall tell you. If you came from the other village... ...would you answer 'no' if I were to ask you whether... ...you came from the liars' village? By means of a double negative the liar is forced to tell the truth. This construction forces him to reveal his identity, you see. That's what I call logic via argument to the truth! Well, I know another question. You do? There is no other question, by the laws of logic. There isn't? But I do know another question. Let us hear it, then! I should ask the man whether he was a tree-frog. The man from the truth village would say: No, I'm not a tree-frog, because he tells the truth. The man from the liars' village would say: Yes, I'm a tree-frog, because he would tell a lie. So I know where he comes from. No, that's not a proper question. That won't do, I can't accept it as a question. That's no logic; logic is deduction, not description. What you've done is describe something, not deduce it. But I understood his question. Understanding is secondary; the reasoning is the thing. In Logic and Mathematics we do not understand things... ...we reason and deduce: I cannot accept that question.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    See also: The barometer problem: http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/barometer.asp http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/barometer.asp Richard Feynman interviews at Microsoft: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2011/02/14/what-would-feynman-do.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2011/02/14/what-...
  - wslh 13y ago
    I am always surprised by those strange downvotes in HN...
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    It's a funny story, but they screwed up the riddle. You need to know the answer to a yes/no question that this liar/truth-teller can answer. For example, which road should I take to get to the castle? You only have one question, so you can't ask are you a tree-frog, because then you wouldn't know which road to take. http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.liar.html http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.liar.html
- phaus 13y ago
  I was going to say Billiards because it doesn't require much physical effort, even though it's fun.
- SilasX 13y ago
  One time in school, we got that question and the choices were picture: a) Fireman with hat b) Baseball player with hat c) Cowboy with hat d) Bus driver without hat We were told the answer was d), but my answer was, "The cowboy, because that's the only one that's not a real job anymore."
- maxden 13y ago
  Interestingly, to give further evidence of your point, I would say hockey is played with a ball, unless the reader assumes hockey is 'ice hockey'.
gwern 13y ago
> IQ tests are notoriously hard to make. And they don't measure IQ, so much as what the tester considers IQ. They are notoriously hard to make, yes, but psychometricians have put in a ton of effort to make culture-fair tests and investigate claimed biases, so they're pretty good these days. We're a very long way from the WWI Alpha test.

by Ygg2 13y ago

rprospero 13y ago

There's another famous, possibly apocryphal, story about an IQ test with the question: Which of the following doesn't belong: a) Basketball b) Polo c) Hockey d) Billiards The answer is obviously Basketball, since it's the only sport that doesn't use a stick to hit anything. Except the answer is obviously Polo, since it's the only one with horses. Except the answer is obviously Hockey, since it's the only one with a puck instead of a ball. Except the answer is obviously Billiards, since it's the only one without a team. In case you're curious about the RIGHT answer, the test found that Canadians and Americans living in colder climates were slightly smarter than average.

wslh 13y ago
Following your story I love this scene from Kaspar Hauser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAnOi0fnxuE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAnOi0fnxuE From the subtitles: The Professor here has come all this way to ask you a question. He wants to see how well you can think... ...and what you have learned in these two years... ...and whether you can think logically. Will you answer him? - Yes! - Good. Kaspar... ...let's pretend that this is a village. In this village live people who tell only the truth. Here is another village. The people here only tell lies. Two paths run from these villages to where you are standing... ...and you are at the crossroads. A man comes along, and you want to know which village he comes from... ...the village of the truthtellers or the village of the liars. Now in order to solve this problem, to solve it logically... ...you have one question, and only one. What is the question? That's too difficult for him, how can he know that. I admit, the question is thorny. If you ask the man whether he comes from the village of truth... ...and he does, then he will say, truthfully, yes. But if he comes from the village of lies, he will lie... ...and also answer yes! Yet there exists one question which will solve the problem. That's much to hard, too complicated. You have one question, Kaspar... ...and only one, to solve this problem of logic. I wouldn't know either. If you can't think of the question... ...then I shall tell you. If you came from the other village... ...would you answer 'no' if I were to ask you whether... ...you came from the liars' village? By means of a double negative the liar is forced to tell the truth. This construction forces him to reveal his identity, you see. That's what I call logic via argument to the truth! Well, I know another question. You do? There is no other question, by the laws of logic. There isn't? But I do know another question. Let us hear it, then! I should ask the man whether he was a tree-frog. The man from the truth village would say: No, I'm not a tree-frog, because he tells the truth. The man from the liars' village would say: Yes, I'm a tree-frog, because he would tell a lie. So I know where he comes from. No, that's not a proper question. That won't do, I can't accept it as a question. That's no logic; logic is deduction, not description. What you've done is describe something, not deduce it. But I understood his question. Understanding is secondary; the reasoning is the thing. In Logic and Mathematics we do not understand things... ...we reason and deduce: I cannot accept that question.
- mikeash 13y ago
  See also: The barometer problem: http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/barometer.asp http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/barometer.asp Richard Feynman interviews at Microsoft: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2011/02/14/what-would-feynman-do.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2011/02/14/what-...
- wslh 13y ago
  I am always surprised by those strange downvotes in HN...
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  It's a funny story, but they screwed up the riddle. You need to know the answer to a yes/no question that this liar/truth-teller can answer. For example, which road should I take to get to the castle? You only have one question, so you can't ask are you a tree-frog, because then you wouldn't know which road to take. http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.liar.html http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.liar.html
phaus 13y ago
I was going to say Billiards because it doesn't require much physical effort, even though it's fun.
SilasX 13y ago
One time in school, we got that question and the choices were picture: a) Fireman with hat b) Baseball player with hat c) Cowboy with hat d) Bus driver without hat We were told the answer was d), but my answer was, "The cowboy, because that's the only one that's not a real job anymore."
maxden 13y ago
Interestingly, to give further evidence of your point, I would say hockey is played with a ball, unless the reader assumes hockey is 'ice hockey'.

gwern 13y ago

> IQ tests are notoriously hard to make. And they don't measure IQ, so much as what the tester considers IQ. They are notoriously hard to make, yes, but psychometricians have put in a ton of effort to make culture-fair tests and investigate claimed biases, so they're pretty good these days. We're a very long way from the WWI Alpha test.