6 ms·

I don't have much time right now to sift through so many papers, but see these for instance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10583700 http://www.ncbi.nlm.ni

I don't have much time right now to sift through so many papers, but see these for instance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10583700 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10583700 , http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1372342 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1372342 I haven't stated anything outrageous, it's been known for a long time that piracetam is a positive modulator of glutamate receptors.

mistercow 13y ago
I'm not disputing that. But I've read a ton of studies about piracetam, and I've always had the impression that its primary mechanism was cholinergic.
- pallandt 13y ago
  It largely depends on what you've read: how reputable the journal, how well-informed and genuine the researchers were etc. Some papers are written just for the sake of making one researcher's 'quota' or fulfilling the minimal requirements for a grant. It's not unusual even in the research community to keep rehashing old information.
  - gwern 13y ago
    I too was distinctly under the impression that piracetam's mechanism was cholinergic and other mechanisms were bit players; Wikipedia likewise gives that impression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam#Mechanisms_of_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam#Mechanisms_of_action
    - pallandt 13y ago
      I always take Wikipedia with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to pharmacology / pharmacodynamics / pharmacokinetics. I may be wrong though, so take my opinions with a grain of salt as well please. Here's another way of looking at the issue though. For instance, an example of the symptoms a cholinergic overdose would cause ('bradycardia, sinus arrhythmia, vomiting and respiratory insufficiency'), as opposed to piracetam's most common side-effects listed on Wikipedia ('anxiety, insomnia, irritability, headache, agitation, nervousness, and tremor'): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14658400 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14658400 Although not listed on Wikipedia, sinus tachycardia is another potential side-effect of piracetam, perhaps more common than bradycardia. Unfortunately I can't find where I put my Thomson Micromedex toxicology leaflets on piracetam, I'd look up more info. Btw, I hope I haven't offended you, it's clear you put a lot of work into the article and are passionate about the subject. I'm off to sleep, have an awesome day wherever you are.
      - gwern 13y ago
        So... the evidence for your claim was that some of the side-effects sound similar?

mistercow 13y ago

I'm not disputing that. But I've read a ton of studies about piracetam, and I've always had the impression that its primary mechanism was cholinergic.

pallandt 13y ago
It largely depends on what you've read: how reputable the journal, how well-informed and genuine the researchers were etc. Some papers are written just for the sake of making one researcher's 'quota' or fulfilling the minimal requirements for a grant. It's not unusual even in the research community to keep rehashing old information.
- gwern 13y ago
  I too was distinctly under the impression that piracetam's mechanism was cholinergic and other mechanisms were bit players; Wikipedia likewise gives that impression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam#Mechanisms_of_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam#Mechanisms_of_action
  - pallandt 13y ago
    I always take Wikipedia with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to pharmacology / pharmacodynamics / pharmacokinetics. I may be wrong though, so take my opinions with a grain of salt as well please. Here's another way of looking at the issue though. For instance, an example of the symptoms a cholinergic overdose would cause ('bradycardia, sinus arrhythmia, vomiting and respiratory insufficiency'), as opposed to piracetam's most common side-effects listed on Wikipedia ('anxiety, insomnia, irritability, headache, agitation, nervousness, and tremor'): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14658400 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14658400 Although not listed on Wikipedia, sinus tachycardia is another potential side-effect of piracetam, perhaps more common than bradycardia. Unfortunately I can't find where I put my Thomson Micromedex toxicology leaflets on piracetam, I'd look up more info. Btw, I hope I haven't offended you, it's clear you put a lot of work into the article and are passionate about the subject. I'm off to sleep, have an awesome day wherever you are.
    - gwern 13y ago
      So... the evidence for your claim was that some of the side-effects sound similar?