5 ms·

As the author says, it's just an experiment to see how fast he can get the filesystem and kernel up. There is no network and most functionality is missing. The

As the author says, it's just an experiment to see how fast he can get the filesystem and kernel up. There is no network and most functionality is missing. There are not services or anything else. So no point comparing this to Windows or OSX or anything else that requires any functionality other than kernel and filesystem.

ambrop7 13y ago
Actually, if you use efficient software, you can get lots of stuff running in basically no time. In particular that means avoiding shell scripts and using as little external commands as possible. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if the author stopped using OpenRC and used systemd instead, to initialize the same things, it would have made a noticable difference. And a little self-promotion now :P As far as network config is concerned, using my NCD[1] software, it can be set up in no time (that is, not much more than the time it takes to negotiate a DHCP lease). In fact if you were super crazy, you would drop systemd and just run NCD as init, doing both basic initialization, as well as network config, all in one NCD process. I've even tried it some time ago, and got some very basic stuff working[2]. [1] https://code.google.com/p/badvpn/wiki/NCD https://code.google.com/p/badvpn/wiki/NCD [2] https://code.google.com/p/ncdinit/ https://code.google.com/p/ncdinit/
- hmottestad 13y ago
  Recommend you have a look at how Apple does DHCP negotiations. http://cafbit.com/entry/rapid_dhcp_or_how_do http://cafbit.com/entry/rapid_dhcp_or_how_do
  - ambrop7 13y ago
    Thanks for the link, that is some interesting info. I've only skimmed it, but yes, I'm aware that DHCP requests can be made without a discover phase (I've had to read the RFC to implement DHCP in NCD ;). I suspect that it's not actually directly doing some low-level ARP magic; rather the DHCP client may just be sending multiple DHCP request packets to past DHCP servers, and only the one whose automatic ARP request succeeds actually gets sent out. At least that'd how I would implement it.
- aidenn0 13y ago
  I actually experimented with a kvm image of gentoo where I replaced openrc with daemontools (plus some sh scripts I wrote to manage dependencies). I boot to a login with DHCP and NIS in under 5 seconds.
nilved 13y ago
I have an pretty standard Arch Linux installation with an SSD and my boot time is 1.5 seconds. My MacBook with an SSD takes nearly a minute.
- dman 13y ago
  Does that exclude bios init time?
  - dmix 13y ago
    No it doubt it. I also ran Arch Linux on a Macbook Air 2012 w/ ssd and the bios init time was (way) longer than the Arch linux boot.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    BIOS init time on my chromebook pixel is absolutely a killer. The "OS verification is turned off" screen appears instantly, but then I have to manually press ctrl-l to make seabios start loading, and seabios isn't particularly snappy about loading then picking the harddrive so grub can kick off. That whole process takes maybe 4 seconds which I think is a bit absurd. My solution of course is to just suspend/hibernate instead of powering down, but it is a little disappointing that I don't get to play the "fast boot" game.
    - dman 13y ago
      Yes if you do unsafe things you can be fast. There is a hilarious open issue that google refuses to fix - critical information required to boot is written to a part that is battery backed. So if you have your pixel in developer mode, and have installed linux on it, just close the screen and and let your battery drain to zero - your pixel will become non bootable. All of this because storing this information in TPM where it would be persistent would "slow" down the boot. Speaking from experience - my pixel has lost data three times because of this.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        Huuh, that sounds pretty shit, I'll have to increase the frequency of my backups... Do you have a link to that issue handy?
ubersoldat2k7 13y ago
And that's a great point he implicitly makes in his "study". With Linux (or any OSS OS for that matter) you strip out all this different services, dig deep into the code, remove lots of stuff and you still get an OS working. Sure, you can't use LibreOffice, but that's not the point. You cannot get this sort of flexibility with the operating systems you mention. Good luck removing Internet Explorer from freaking Windows.
- jarek 13y ago
  XPLite, nLite, RT Se7en Lite, etc disagree
- travem 13y ago
  Server Core? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh846313(v=vs.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh84...
pygy_ 13y ago
Windows and OS X are actually "cheating" regarding their boot time. The UI becomes responsive before all services are loaded.
- ajanuary 13y ago
  I remember before I got my SSD I'd have to wait for the clock in the menu bar to update before I could use anything.
- andreif 13y ago
  I really hate this. My MBA gets to sleep again before I can type my login password, so I have to press something (usually arrow) to keep it awake till UI responds. If I type the password before UI responds, then there is a good chance that the first characters are lost. I should probably reinstall the system or do some clean up, but it is still an UI/UX issue.
  - rguldener 13y ago
    Had a similar issue (screen would just go black again a random interval after wakeup from sleep and have to login again). Resetting the system management controller did the trick for me: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964

ambrop7 13y ago

Actually, if you use efficient software, you can get lots of stuff running in basically no time. In particular that means avoiding shell scripts and using as little external commands as possible. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if the author stopped using OpenRC and used systemd instead, to initialize the same things, it would have made a noticable difference. And a little self-promotion now :P As far as network config is concerned, using my NCD[1] software, it can be set up in no time (that is, not much more than the time it takes to negotiate a DHCP lease). In fact if you were super crazy, you would drop systemd and just run NCD as init, doing both basic initialization, as well as network config, all in one NCD process. I've even tried it some time ago, and got some very basic stuff working[2]. [1] https://code.google.com/p/badvpn/wiki/NCD https://code.google.com/p/badvpn/wiki/NCD [2] https://code.google.com/p/ncdinit/ https://code.google.com/p/ncdinit/

hmottestad 13y ago
Recommend you have a look at how Apple does DHCP negotiations. http://cafbit.com/entry/rapid_dhcp_or_how_do http://cafbit.com/entry/rapid_dhcp_or_how_do
- ambrop7 13y ago
  Thanks for the link, that is some interesting info. I've only skimmed it, but yes, I'm aware that DHCP requests can be made without a discover phase (I've had to read the RFC to implement DHCP in NCD ;). I suspect that it's not actually directly doing some low-level ARP magic; rather the DHCP client may just be sending multiple DHCP request packets to past DHCP servers, and only the one whose automatic ARP request succeeds actually gets sent out. At least that'd how I would implement it.
aidenn0 13y ago
I actually experimented with a kvm image of gentoo where I replaced openrc with daemontools (plus some sh scripts I wrote to manage dependencies). I boot to a login with DHCP and NIS in under 5 seconds.

nilved 13y ago

I have an pretty standard Arch Linux installation with an SSD and my boot time is 1.5 seconds. My MacBook with an SSD takes nearly a minute.

dman 13y ago
Does that exclude bios init time?
- dmix 13y ago
  No it doubt it. I also ran Arch Linux on a Macbook Air 2012 w/ ssd and the bios init time was (way) longer than the Arch linux boot.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  BIOS init time on my chromebook pixel is absolutely a killer. The "OS verification is turned off" screen appears instantly, but then I have to manually press ctrl-l to make seabios start loading, and seabios isn't particularly snappy about loading then picking the harddrive so grub can kick off. That whole process takes maybe 4 seconds which I think is a bit absurd. My solution of course is to just suspend/hibernate instead of powering down, but it is a little disappointing that I don't get to play the "fast boot" game.
  - dman 13y ago
    Yes if you do unsafe things you can be fast. There is a hilarious open issue that google refuses to fix - critical information required to boot is written to a part that is battery backed. So if you have your pixel in developer mode, and have installed linux on it, just close the screen and and let your battery drain to zero - your pixel will become non bootable. All of this because storing this information in TPM where it would be persistent would "slow" down the boot. Speaking from experience - my pixel has lost data three times because of this.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Huuh, that sounds pretty shit, I'll have to increase the frequency of my backups... Do you have a link to that issue handy?

ubersoldat2k7 13y ago

And that's a great point he implicitly makes in his "study". With Linux (or any OSS OS for that matter) you strip out all this different services, dig deep into the code, remove lots of stuff and you still get an OS working. Sure, you can't use LibreOffice, but that's not the point. You cannot get this sort of flexibility with the operating systems you mention. Good luck removing Internet Explorer from freaking Windows.

jarek 13y ago
XPLite, nLite, RT Se7en Lite, etc disagree
travem 13y ago
Server Core? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh846313(v=vs.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh84...

pygy_ 13y ago

Windows and OS X are actually "cheating" regarding their boot time. The UI becomes responsive before all services are loaded.

ajanuary 13y ago
I remember before I got my SSD I'd have to wait for the clock in the menu bar to update before I could use anything.
andreif 13y ago
I really hate this. My MBA gets to sleep again before I can type my login password, so I have to press something (usually arrow) to keep it awake till UI responds. If I type the password before UI responds, then there is a good chance that the first characters are lost. I should probably reinstall the system or do some clean up, but it is still an UI/UX issue.
- rguldener 13y ago
  Had a similar issue (screen would just go black again a random interval after wakeup from sleep and have to login again). Resetting the system management controller did the trick for me: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964