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Just read up on some data about flogging up until 1954, Great Britain. Memories of criminals about flogging. Interesting read, OP seems to have a point, some me

Just read up on some data about flogging up until 1954, Great Britain. Memories of criminals about flogging. Interesting read, OP seems to have a point, some men don't fear prison, it's their natural habitat. They do fear "The Cat" and changed their behavior accordingly. (scroll to "Only the 'CAT' holds back the brutes" http://www.corpun.com/ukpr5407.htm http://www.corpun.com/ukpr5407.htm

rbehrends 13y ago
Having an insufficient deterrent is not the problem when other countries have 10%-20% the incarceration rate of the US without flogging while having generally lower crime rates overall and violent crime rates in particular.
- judk 13y ago
  We can't time travel and not-import a huge swath of poor abused hated people. Do you propose we deport them to become more like other countries?
  - rbehrends 13y ago
    The US does not have a particularly high proportion of first-generation immigrants compared to some European countries. There are also other countries that have more poverty (in the absolute sense at least), yet less crime and less incarceration. Poverty is also something that society can do something about; if you say that the problem is that America has created a large underclass, then that's the problem you want to solve. Flogging won't reduce the size of that underclass; it can only subdue it.
    - judk 13y ago
      Why did you stick "first generation immigrant" in there. Those aren't the people who were imported and abused.
      - rbehrends 13y ago
        Because your language was sufficiently imprecise so that it wasn't clear what you're talking about, and because, while being a first-generation immigrant may correlate with a higher crime rate, the same does not generally hold for future generations (when integration has happened). Note that life in the slums of Victorian London was not any better than for post-Civil War African Americans, for example. If you control for first-immigration immigrants along with socio-economic disadvantages, most of the difference in crime rates between minorities and the rest of population goes away. That minorities were/are imported and abused plays a role only insofar as existing racism and social stratification perpetuates the disadvantages they suffer. However, flogging will not eliminate racism or social stratification; if anything, it will do the opposite.
colanderman 13y ago
Few men get the "cat" twice. I know only one man who did. [...] Obviously, the only way to get a message of disapproval into such an obtuse skull is via the nine whipcord communications lines of the Home Office cat-o'-nine-tails through the flesh of his shoulders and nerves up to his selfish, destructive, jungle brain. Mm, the old anecdote + proof by obviousness. A classic form of scientific study.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  Not entirely, this Mr Fabian was one of the world's most famous policemen in the middle of the 20th century. Robert "Fabian of the Yard" Fabian was the former chief detective of the (London) Metropolitan Police murder squad, based at Scotland Yard.

rbehrends 13y ago

Having an insufficient deterrent is not the problem when other countries have 10%-20% the incarceration rate of the US without flogging while having generally lower crime rates overall and violent crime rates in particular.

judk 13y ago
We can't time travel and not-import a huge swath of poor abused hated people. Do you propose we deport them to become more like other countries?
- rbehrends 13y ago
  The US does not have a particularly high proportion of first-generation immigrants compared to some European countries. There are also other countries that have more poverty (in the absolute sense at least), yet less crime and less incarceration. Poverty is also something that society can do something about; if you say that the problem is that America has created a large underclass, then that's the problem you want to solve. Flogging won't reduce the size of that underclass; it can only subdue it.
  - judk 13y ago
    Why did you stick "first generation immigrant" in there. Those aren't the people who were imported and abused.
    - rbehrends 13y ago
      Because your language was sufficiently imprecise so that it wasn't clear what you're talking about, and because, while being a first-generation immigrant may correlate with a higher crime rate, the same does not generally hold for future generations (when integration has happened). Note that life in the slums of Victorian London was not any better than for post-Civil War African Americans, for example. If you control for first-immigration immigrants along with socio-economic disadvantages, most of the difference in crime rates between minorities and the rest of population goes away. That minorities were/are imported and abused plays a role only insofar as existing racism and social stratification perpetuates the disadvantages they suffer. However, flogging will not eliminate racism or social stratification; if anything, it will do the opposite.

colanderman 13y ago

Few men get the "cat" twice. I know only one man who did. [...] Obviously, the only way to get a message of disapproval into such an obtuse skull is via the nine whipcord communications lines of the Home Office cat-o'-nine-tails through the flesh of his shoulders and nerves up to his selfish, destructive, jungle brain. Mm, the old anecdote + proof by obviousness. A classic form of scientific study.

digitalengineer 13y ago
Not entirely, this Mr Fabian was one of the world's most famous policemen in the middle of the 20th century. Robert "Fabian of the Yard" Fabian was the former chief detective of the (London) Metropolitan Police murder squad, based at Scotland Yard.