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These border issues affect America as a business environment which is highly relevant to the startup scene (check the stats on how many startups are founded by

These border issues affect America as a business environment which is highly relevant to the startup scene (check the stats on how many startups are founded by immigrants, not to mention the effect on the large number of migrant tech workers). Civil rights also tend to find a captive audience among hackers, I guess because it is (lately more so than ever) tied into freedom of speech and by extension, freedom of information.

madaxe 13y ago
America sucks as a business environment: * Crappy immigration. I can get around the EU (Schengen) and across borders without breaking stride. In the US, it's 3 hours minimum, and that's assuming you get in. * Crappy legislation and tax. Your tax codes suck. Starting a business sucks. In the UK, fill in a single bit of paper, and pay your corporation tax when it's due. Flat percentage of income, two rates, one for most businesses, one for huge businesses. Don't get me started on the strength of behemoth corporate interests lobbies. * Crappy businesses. The American way seems to be to hold a gun to your "partners'" heads, and use lawyers to enact your will. In Europe, people actually tend to trust one another. * Crappy security. By this I mean not "THERE SHOULD BE MORE POLICE", but rather "I don't know if I can run a business in the US without the state meddling, and/or simply taking it away from me, and/or the state collapsing leaving mayhem both for a business and for anyone stuck out there when the brown stuff hits the whirly thing.". I just don't understand why anyone would want to either start a business in the US, or do business with the US. We used to, but pulled out, as the EU is a plenty big enough market, and far more... humane. Come to Europe, it's nice here, and there are paid holidays.... and a government.
- davidw 13y ago
  > I just don't understand why anyone would want to either start a business in the US, or do business with the US. Here are some companies you could ask: Apple, IBM, Microsoft, Google, HP, Facebook, Cisco. Here are some others: http://yclist.com/ http://yclist.com/ It could well be - I would even suspect it myself - that the US is an imperfect country. And yet it seems to have a few companies who are able to do business there notwithstanding the harsh conditions.
  - atlanticus 13y ago
    Europeans are always upset that the first country to market with new products is the US, but if they spent even half the time they spend complaining about America to actually build something useful they would be much better off.
    - madaxe 13y ago
      Ah, American exceptionalism. You're right. Everything but the US is some kind of barren desert which only exists in cartoons. Have you ever left your home city? State?
      - sigkill 13y ago
        But American exceptionalism is a real thing. Well atleast today I don't think it stands for "Well, America is awesome" but more on the lines of "Where in the world will I find 300 million people having roughly similar culture, and for whom I don't need to translate my product into a dozen languages (bonus if it's English since we program by default in English), and who're more probably willing to spend money." Bam, America. I'm not supporting anything, but looking at it from a business point of view this is pretty tempting.
        madaxe 13y ago
        China and/or Russia. For English, Western Europe.
      - atlanticus 13y ago
        This comment from another site is appropriate: >The deep rooted anti-American theme of the EU does not take long to emerge. This undertone is rarely flaunted, but is intuitively detected. Few seem to understand that it is one of the bases of the United Kingdom’s deep unease with the EU, because UK people simply do not understand or share that objective.
        madaxe 13y ago

madaxe 13y ago

America sucks as a business environment: * Crappy immigration. I can get around the EU (Schengen) and across borders without breaking stride. In the US, it's 3 hours minimum, and that's assuming you get in. * Crappy legislation and tax. Your tax codes suck. Starting a business sucks. In the UK, fill in a single bit of paper, and pay your corporation tax when it's due. Flat percentage of income, two rates, one for most businesses, one for huge businesses. Don't get me started on the strength of behemoth corporate interests lobbies. * Crappy businesses. The American way seems to be to hold a gun to your "partners'" heads, and use lawyers to enact your will. In Europe, people actually tend to trust one another. * Crappy security. By this I mean not "THERE SHOULD BE MORE POLICE", but rather "I don't know if I can run a business in the US without the state meddling, and/or simply taking it away from me, and/or the state collapsing leaving mayhem both for a business and for anyone stuck out there when the brown stuff hits the whirly thing.". I just don't understand why anyone would want to either start a business in the US, or do business with the US. We used to, but pulled out, as the EU is a plenty big enough market, and far more... humane. Come to Europe, it's nice here, and there are paid holidays.... and a government.

davidw 13y ago
> I just don't understand why anyone would want to either start a business in the US, or do business with the US. Here are some companies you could ask: Apple, IBM, Microsoft, Google, HP, Facebook, Cisco. Here are some others: http://yclist.com/ http://yclist.com/ It could well be - I would even suspect it myself - that the US is an imperfect country. And yet it seems to have a few companies who are able to do business there notwithstanding the harsh conditions.
- atlanticus 13y ago
  Europeans are always upset that the first country to market with new products is the US, but if they spent even half the time they spend complaining about America to actually build something useful they would be much better off.
  - madaxe 13y ago
    Ah, American exceptionalism. You're right. Everything but the US is some kind of barren desert which only exists in cartoons. Have you ever left your home city? State?
    - sigkill 13y ago
      But American exceptionalism is a real thing. Well atleast today I don't think it stands for "Well, America is awesome" but more on the lines of "Where in the world will I find 300 million people having roughly similar culture, and for whom I don't need to translate my product into a dozen languages (bonus if it's English since we program by default in English), and who're more probably willing to spend money." Bam, America. I'm not supporting anything, but looking at it from a business point of view this is pretty tempting.
      - madaxe 13y ago
        China and/or Russia. For English, Western Europe.
    - atlanticus 13y ago
      This comment from another site is appropriate: >The deep rooted anti-American theme of the EU does not take long to emerge. This undertone is rarely flaunted, but is intuitively detected. Few seem to understand that it is one of the bases of the United Kingdom’s deep unease with the EU, because UK people simply do not understand or share that objective.
      - madaxe 13y ago