6 ms·

The article reports, "It was her 13th time to visit the US in a span of more than two and a half decades." All that is reported here sounds like an aberration,

The article reports, "It was her 13th time to visit the US in a span of more than two and a half decades." All that is reported here sounds like an aberration, an officer who mistook the situation and abused his authority. For context, the United States continues to be second only to France as a destination for international tourist visits, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings and just last week my wife and I enjoyed a meet-up in another part of the United States with several of her high school classmates from back when she lived in Taiwan, who arrived from Taiwan, Malaysia, and China, all without incident. When peaceful, hassle-free visits number in the millions per year, a few visits that are abuses of the process will certainly make news, but they don't appear to discourage tourism to the United States over the long haul.

kubiiii 13y ago
Who can tell? The rank of the US for tourism might be high but could be higher. The same applies to France where I am from. It's ok to be complete assholes with tourists, to charge them 3x times the standard rate, to restrain from learning english, because we are ranked #1 anyway.
- CaptainZapp 13y ago
  I'm visiting Paris fairly often and my French (Swiss German school french) can easily be described as rotten. It's serviceable enough to buy a carnet of metro tickets, or to ask directions. I noticed, however, that it's highly appreciated when I try to speak French with Parisians and I very rarely get snide answers. I observe this actually in almost every country. Try to speak a few words of the language and you're usually rewarded. (And compared to my Czech, my French is easily on Camus level). I think one of the issues is that the French are especially touchy when it comes to language and radiating an attitude of "Are those natives actually to dumb to speak proper English" definitely won't win the French over.
  - graue 13y ago
    Interesting. I had a different experience in Montreal (and my mother when she visited Paris): we would try to say a few words of French, and people would immediately realize we were American and switch to English in response. Maybe your French isn't quite as rotten as you think.
    - claudius 13y ago
      That is exactly the effect described by the GP: People appreciate you trying to speak French and help you out in whatever way they can, in this case by switching to English. The point is for you to give a decent first impression by doing some work and at least attempting to communicate in French rather than expecting them to speak English from the start.
jcromartie 13y ago
Frequent travel is a typical reason for border agents to become suspicious. If you don't look rich and white enough, it might mean trouble for you.
army 13y ago
I can see why she might have been flagged for closer investigation: someone from the Phillipines with lots of family in the U.S. is probably a high risk of overstaying, but it sounds like the way it was conducted was totally out of line.
- toyg 13y ago
  If the potential risk of overstaying is ground for immediate deportation, how do they ever accept anyone in...? If all laws depended on the "potential risk" of being guilty, we might as well not have them and just defer to professionally-trained feudal warriors (pardon, the Police) in all matters.
kalleboo 13y ago
> For context, the United States continues to be second only to France as a destination for international tourist visits France is also a way smaller country than the US. If these numbers are correct and you bundled together the whole Schengen area instead (as it has a common border), it would massively dwarf the US.
- rtkwe 13y ago
  Making comparisons like that is largely useless though because there's a thousand other adjustments you could make; visitor vs depth of history, visitors vs density, etc.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    Agreed.
  - Dewie 13y ago
    I don't think it is useless. It is pretty common to use relative rather than absolute numbers: population density rather than population, GDP per capita rather than just GDP... When it comes to GDP, GDP per capita says more about how affluent a country is compared to other countries than just the GDP. And in the same way that a larger contry tends to have a larger economy, a country that is larger in size and in population is more likely to have more visitors than the same country with less size and less population. Besides: things like history is likely to be what is often used to explain the large amounts of tourists that coutnries like France gets, in the first place, while the population variable is left hidden.
- rollo_tommasi 13y ago
  You would then need to sift out all the international tourist visits that are Schengen-area residents visiting other Schengen area countries. I suspect this would have an enormous impact on Europe's numbers.
joonix 13y ago
And we don't hear about the flip-side, which is the fact that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, overstay their visitor visas every year. It's not fair to citizens nor is it fair to those going through the legal process of immigration. I work in immigration and was shocked myself at just how prevalent this is. Many work professional jobs without issue, even though they have no authorization to do so, living here for decades on an expired visitor visa. It's a much bigger problem than people crossing the border without inspection.
- aqme28 13y ago
  How is it exactly a problem though? By that I mean who precisely is victimized?
  - tokenadult 13y ago
    He already answered your question when he wrote, It's not fair to citizens nor is it fair to those going through the legal process of immigration.
    - joering2 13y ago
      Yes, but his point of view is very shortsighted and biased based on the fact he works for the USCIS (I am not blaming him, rather pointing it out). The immigration in US will not get the main overhaul and despite all the high tech of tracking borders 24/7 via up to second satellite streams, you still can pretty much run through a border and live an average live in the US. And that's because those highly educated within the government body understand that those here working ilegally became a part of economical system long time ago. Some say its a cancer, but try to take away cigarettes from your 80-years old grandmother that smoked her whole life and you will see how her body shuts itself down. Now, let me show you how this works in very basic terms. Joonix is living a decent life with his wife and kids. They are happy middle class family, with loan on the house, bills paid on time, car loan, etc. He and his wife makes an average salary but combined they can afford most stuff a family would dream of. Now, by some magic wand all illegal immigrants are removed from this country. Overnight. He comes back from work on Monday and opens up his mailbox. Bunch of mail, mostly bills, as usual. Uh no! his cable bill just went up by 150%. The letter does not explain why. He calls in and is explained that it turned out that an outsourcer of the outsourcer of another outsourcer they been legally and lawfully using for technical support, fixing modems, supporting infrastructure, hooking up cable boxes etc, was hiring illegals for $5 per hours. Now they had to be replaced by natural-born US citizens that in most cases won't move their finger for less than $9 per hour, because - well you have wellfare and obamacare and all those social programs that are free. And besides those sweat breaking jobs are in some cases just too bad for their reputation or self esteem. So now to justify the pricing (after all, cable companies are not in the charity business, but rather designed to make money), they jacked up his $127/month 200 channels TV bill to $280. Joonix is angry and don't understand. But hey, no worries after all we are living in a competitive market. He calls in another cable company and gets even higher quote -- that second company decided to take advantage of the new law that removed all illegals and jacked up price even more. All night of shopping for new cable left him with no choice than to pay 150% more what he did last month, or shut off his TV forever. He wakes up the next day to go to work. His law is in awful shape -- ugh, the service lawn company went out of business. The new staff they had was too expensive and in some cases new employees did not even care to show up to work. He drives to the gas station. Prices went up 20%. Someone tries to explain him the employment chain that takes place from the moment an oil barrel is sucked out of earth and gets delivered to his local gas station. Lots of illegals involved. Now the price is $8 per gallon. Joonix complains but the gas station owner bashes him that he should be proud -- after all, no illegal hands touched the gas he pumped in his car. He gets to work. His boss has some good news and some bad news. Good news is that all illegals are gone. Bad news is that 97% of the stuff will be let go. After all, no fraud or illegals to fight with. After work he goes to a local shop market. Pricing for most food items went up from 80% to 250%. Most agricultural companies were forced to raise prices aggressively because they could not outsource field work to some other companies that were hiring illegals. He comes home. Air condition unit just died. He calls in -- a man with perfect american accent answers. He can send someone same day to check it out for $180 per hour, no guarantees. The ad he hold in his hand from last month ValvePack says $39.99. Joonix sits down with his wife looking through the bills. Everything went up tremendously. They have no idea how they will afford tomorrow. Perhaps they will have to let the house go? They may be forced to be homeless, but at least they will be homeless in the country where everyone is a US citizen. They fall asleep holding hands, proud to be americans.
bonemachine 13y ago
Unfortunately we've hearing way too many of these stories over the past several years to the point where it they no longer sound like "aberrations", but systemic abuses. Unfortunately they aren't backed by hard data... because CBP/TS/HS aren't wont to publish stats on how many people they've needlessly and humiliated (or worse) at border checkpoints. But taken together with recent trends which we do have hard data for (for example, the ACLU's stats in the phenomenal expansion of detention facilities for immigrants suspected of illegal entry... and the abusive practices that transpire within) suggest that very disturbing trends are taking hold. All that is reported here sounds like an aberration, ...

kubiiii 13y ago

Who can tell? The rank of the US for tourism might be high but could be higher. The same applies to France where I am from. It's ok to be complete assholes with tourists, to charge them 3x times the standard rate, to restrain from learning english, because we are ranked #1 anyway.

CaptainZapp 13y ago
I'm visiting Paris fairly often and my French (Swiss German school french) can easily be described as rotten. It's serviceable enough to buy a carnet of metro tickets, or to ask directions. I noticed, however, that it's highly appreciated when I try to speak French with Parisians and I very rarely get snide answers. I observe this actually in almost every country. Try to speak a few words of the language and you're usually rewarded. (And compared to my Czech, my French is easily on Camus level). I think one of the issues is that the French are especially touchy when it comes to language and radiating an attitude of "Are those natives actually to dumb to speak proper English" definitely won't win the French over.
- graue 13y ago
  Interesting. I had a different experience in Montreal (and my mother when she visited Paris): we would try to say a few words of French, and people would immediately realize we were American and switch to English in response. Maybe your French isn't quite as rotten as you think.
  - claudius 13y ago
    That is exactly the effect described by the GP: People appreciate you trying to speak French and help you out in whatever way they can, in this case by switching to English. The point is for you to give a decent first impression by doing some work and at least attempting to communicate in French rather than expecting them to speak English from the start.

jcromartie 13y ago

Frequent travel is a typical reason for border agents to become suspicious. If you don't look rich and white enough, it might mean trouble for you.

army 13y ago

I can see why she might have been flagged for closer investigation: someone from the Phillipines with lots of family in the U.S. is probably a high risk of overstaying, but it sounds like the way it was conducted was totally out of line.

toyg 13y ago
If the potential risk of overstaying is ground for immediate deportation, how do they ever accept anyone in...? If all laws depended on the "potential risk" of being guilty, we might as well not have them and just defer to professionally-trained feudal warriors (pardon, the Police) in all matters.

kalleboo 13y ago

> For context, the United States continues to be second only to France as a destination for international tourist visits France is also a way smaller country than the US. If these numbers are correct and you bundled together the whole Schengen area instead (as it has a common border), it would massively dwarf the US.

rtkwe 13y ago
Making comparisons like that is largely useless though because there's a thousand other adjustments you could make; visitor vs depth of history, visitors vs density, etc.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  Agreed.
- Dewie 13y ago
  I don't think it is useless. It is pretty common to use relative rather than absolute numbers: population density rather than population, GDP per capita rather than just GDP... When it comes to GDP, GDP per capita says more about how affluent a country is compared to other countries than just the GDP. And in the same way that a larger contry tends to have a larger economy, a country that is larger in size and in population is more likely to have more visitors than the same country with less size and less population. Besides: things like history is likely to be what is often used to explain the large amounts of tourists that coutnries like France gets, in the first place, while the population variable is left hidden.
rollo_tommasi 13y ago
You would then need to sift out all the international tourist visits that are Schengen-area residents visiting other Schengen area countries. I suspect this would have an enormous impact on Europe's numbers.

joonix 13y ago

And we don't hear about the flip-side, which is the fact that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, overstay their visitor visas every year. It's not fair to citizens nor is it fair to those going through the legal process of immigration. I work in immigration and was shocked myself at just how prevalent this is. Many work professional jobs without issue, even though they have no authorization to do so, living here for decades on an expired visitor visa. It's a much bigger problem than people crossing the border without inspection.

aqme28 13y ago
How is it exactly a problem though? By that I mean who precisely is victimized?
- tokenadult 13y ago
  He already answered your question when he wrote, It's not fair to citizens nor is it fair to those going through the legal process of immigration.
  - joering2 13y ago
    Yes, but his point of view is very shortsighted and biased based on the fact he works for the USCIS (I am not blaming him, rather pointing it out). The immigration in US will not get the main overhaul and despite all the high tech of tracking borders 24/7 via up to second satellite streams, you still can pretty much run through a border and live an average live in the US. And that's because those highly educated within the government body understand that those here working ilegally became a part of economical system long time ago. Some say its a cancer, but try to take away cigarettes from your 80-years old grandmother that smoked her whole life and you will see how her body shuts itself down. Now, let me show you how this works in very basic terms. Joonix is living a decent life with his wife and kids. They are happy middle class family, with loan on the house, bills paid on time, car loan, etc. He and his wife makes an average salary but combined they can afford most stuff a family would dream of. Now, by some magic wand all illegal immigrants are removed from this country. Overnight. He comes back from work on Monday and opens up his mailbox. Bunch of mail, mostly bills, as usual. Uh no! his cable bill just went up by 150%. The letter does not explain why. He calls in and is explained that it turned out that an outsourcer of the outsourcer of another outsourcer they been legally and lawfully using for technical support, fixing modems, supporting infrastructure, hooking up cable boxes etc, was hiring illegals for $5 per hours. Now they had to be replaced by natural-born US citizens that in most cases won't move their finger for less than $9 per hour, because - well you have wellfare and obamacare and all those social programs that are free. And besides those sweat breaking jobs are in some cases just too bad for their reputation or self esteem. So now to justify the pricing (after all, cable companies are not in the charity business, but rather designed to make money), they jacked up his $127/month 200 channels TV bill to $280. Joonix is angry and don't understand. But hey, no worries after all we are living in a competitive market. He calls in another cable company and gets even higher quote -- that second company decided to take advantage of the new law that removed all illegals and jacked up price even more. All night of shopping for new cable left him with no choice than to pay 150% more what he did last month, or shut off his TV forever. He wakes up the next day to go to work. His law is in awful shape -- ugh, the service lawn company went out of business. The new staff they had was too expensive and in some cases new employees did not even care to show up to work. He drives to the gas station. Prices went up 20%. Someone tries to explain him the employment chain that takes place from the moment an oil barrel is sucked out of earth and gets delivered to his local gas station. Lots of illegals involved. Now the price is $8 per gallon. Joonix complains but the gas station owner bashes him that he should be proud -- after all, no illegal hands touched the gas he pumped in his car. He gets to work. His boss has some good news and some bad news. Good news is that all illegals are gone. Bad news is that 97% of the stuff will be let go. After all, no fraud or illegals to fight with. After work he goes to a local shop market. Pricing for most food items went up from 80% to 250%. Most agricultural companies were forced to raise prices aggressively because they could not outsource field work to some other companies that were hiring illegals. He comes home. Air condition unit just died. He calls in -- a man with perfect american accent answers. He can send someone same day to check it out for $180 per hour, no guarantees. The ad he hold in his hand from last month ValvePack says $39.99. Joonix sits down with his wife looking through the bills. Everything went up tremendously. They have no idea how they will afford tomorrow. Perhaps they will have to let the house go? They may be forced to be homeless, but at least they will be homeless in the country where everyone is a US citizen. They fall asleep holding hands, proud to be americans.

bonemachine 13y ago

Unfortunately we've hearing way too many of these stories over the past several years to the point where it they no longer sound like "aberrations", but systemic abuses. Unfortunately they aren't backed by hard data... because CBP/TS/HS aren't wont to publish stats on how many people they've needlessly and humiliated (or worse) at border checkpoints. But taken together with recent trends which we do have hard data for (for example, the ACLU's stats in the phenomenal expansion of detention facilities for immigrants suspected of illegal entry... and the abusive practices that transpire within) suggest that very disturbing trends are taking hold. All that is reported here sounds like an aberration, ...