7 ms·

Things like this really scary me, as a simple startup guy who wants to visit SV some day. I'm reading stories like this more often unfortunately and I'm startin

by pkrefta 13y ago

Things like this really scary me, as a simple startup guy who wants to visit SV some day. I'm reading stories like this more often unfortunately and I'm starting to think if I really want to go to US. Getting a visa in Poland is also not very comfortable process since you've to give all information about your life to US authorities and still I've no guarantee that I'll be able to enter US.

rainsford 13y ago
Just be careful about drawing too broad a conclusion from stories like this. They're certainly bad events and the effort should be to make sure they never happen. But they are the only stories about entering the US that get reported on because they're news...and the uneventful instances are not. This is particularly true if you get your news from an aggregation site like HN where there is a certain level of interest in these stories and so they're even more likely to be reported on here. Millions of people travel to and within the US every year without incident, what gets reported is the admittedly terrible sounding times when that's not the case. Chances are very good that you'd have no problems.
- glimmung 13y ago
  I have to say that visiting the US is out of the question to me because of stuff like this. I appreciate that the the chances of it happening to me are slim, but I'd be worried sick about it, and would find it hard to maintain my composure if it did happen. (Aside: I'm 10 miles away from the largest NSA base outside the US and the local pubs are full of spooks, so arguably the US has come to me!)
- nraynaud 13y ago
  The problem is that these are low probability high impact situation, you want 0 occurrences. I mean wen we get to the US, we have our flight ticket info sent prior, we have to add more data because it's the US, the ESTA, last time I got harassed in Paris by the American Airline because I need to know the address I'm going to (I told her to check my file, I don't remember it), how long I knew my girlfriend and stuff, the NSA knows everything about me (I'm not an US citizen), the TSA checked me, the border police checked me out of the country. When I arrive in front of the CBP agent, my privacy had already been thoroughly shredded in the name of security, and my personal data including credit card is gone in the wild without any recourse or oversight, there is absolutely no need to physically harass people at the border.
  - conformal 13y ago
    totally agree here. avoiding these pointless high-impact incidents is paramount to PR for the US as a travel destination. it is a win for both the US and travelers when this process goes smoothly.
- juliob 13y ago
  On the flip side, this just happened to my Aussie friend, and you don't hear her story in the news or in a blog. Why not? Because what can we do? Tourists have no rights. There is no accountability. There is no check against abuse of power. Yes, there are dozens of these cases every day. Feel free to generalize.
theorique 13y ago
The thing is, no one writes a story about the time that they exchanged twenty words with the border agent, and then went on their way. Why would they? It's not interesting and it's not news. The only stories that tend to get written are the extraordinary ones. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that a border official is going to have the opportunity to do something "extraordinary" for someone unless he saves a life with the Heimlich or something like that. So the "I HAD A HORRIBLE TIME AT THE BORDER!" are the ones that tend to get written up and passed around. No one writes up the hundreds of millions of routine, boring border crossings.
- TeMPOraL 13y ago
  In other words, an example of selection bias (or, media bias[0]). It's important to remember that pretty much every story that is in the news is by definition something that almost never happens - otherwise it wouldn't be "news". (I find the lack of understanding this concept to be a source of lots of dumb discussions both on-line and off-line) [0] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias

by pkrefta 13y ago

rainsford 13y ago

Just be careful about drawing too broad a conclusion from stories like this. They're certainly bad events and the effort should be to make sure they never happen. But they are the only stories about entering the US that get reported on because they're news...and the uneventful instances are not. This is particularly true if you get your news from an aggregation site like HN where there is a certain level of interest in these stories and so they're even more likely to be reported on here. Millions of people travel to and within the US every year without incident, what gets reported is the admittedly terrible sounding times when that's not the case. Chances are very good that you'd have no problems.

glimmung 13y ago
I have to say that visiting the US is out of the question to me because of stuff like this. I appreciate that the the chances of it happening to me are slim, but I'd be worried sick about it, and would find it hard to maintain my composure if it did happen. (Aside: I'm 10 miles away from the largest NSA base outside the US and the local pubs are full of spooks, so arguably the US has come to me!)
nraynaud 13y ago
The problem is that these are low probability high impact situation, you want 0 occurrences. I mean wen we get to the US, we have our flight ticket info sent prior, we have to add more data because it's the US, the ESTA, last time I got harassed in Paris by the American Airline because I need to know the address I'm going to (I told her to check my file, I don't remember it), how long I knew my girlfriend and stuff, the NSA knows everything about me (I'm not an US citizen), the TSA checked me, the border police checked me out of the country. When I arrive in front of the CBP agent, my privacy had already been thoroughly shredded in the name of security, and my personal data including credit card is gone in the wild without any recourse or oversight, there is absolutely no need to physically harass people at the border.
- conformal 13y ago
  totally agree here. avoiding these pointless high-impact incidents is paramount to PR for the US as a travel destination. it is a win for both the US and travelers when this process goes smoothly.
juliob 13y ago
On the flip side, this just happened to my Aussie friend, and you don't hear her story in the news or in a blog. Why not? Because what can we do? Tourists have no rights. There is no accountability. There is no check against abuse of power. Yes, there are dozens of these cases every day. Feel free to generalize.

theorique 13y ago

The thing is, no one writes a story about the time that they exchanged twenty words with the border agent, and then went on their way. Why would they? It's not interesting and it's not news. The only stories that tend to get written are the extraordinary ones. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that a border official is going to have the opportunity to do something "extraordinary" for someone unless he saves a life with the Heimlich or something like that. So the "I HAD A HORRIBLE TIME AT THE BORDER!" are the ones that tend to get written up and passed around. No one writes up the hundreds of millions of routine, boring border crossings.

TeMPOraL 13y ago
In other words, an example of selection bias (or, media bias[0]). It's important to remember that pretty much every story that is in the news is by definition something that almost never happens - otherwise it wouldn't be "news". (I find the lack of understanding this concept to be a source of lots of dumb discussions both on-line and off-line) [0] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias