3 ms·

Even if they could theoretically make a site that can handle every person in the country using it at exactly the same time, it'd still be bottlenecked by the mu

Even if they could theoretically make a site that can handle every person in the country using it at exactly the same time, it'd still be bottlenecked by the much older systems it relies on at the IRS, SS, VA, DOD, DHS, etc. As the article alluded to, the Healthcare.gov site checks your family size, AGI, social security benefit status, citizenship status, incarceration status, veteran status and enrollment in other government health programs during the signup process to determine what you're eligible for.

cantankerous 13y ago
This. The article sorta pines in the end for smaller "more agile devs", but I'm not sure a small shop could just come in and bust this out. There is SO MANY legacy systems that need to interface with this beast. I wouldn't put it past the designers to have been rate-limited at 50,000 whatevers by one of the vendors of the other systems that they have to talk to. Computers from the IRS have been hanging in there sometimes as far back as 40 years ago. I'm sure systems at many other of the lettered agencies are hobbling along just as well. I totally agree that the government needs to become more lucrative to smaller more agile groups. I think it could ultimately get better products at lower prices if it opens up bidding. That said, the government has massive needs and massive legacy systems that many small shops may have a hard time reconciling. There's always ways to theorize about how the government could standardize and modernize its disparate stuff, but that requires strong leadership, a good direction, and money. None of these things appear to be in abundance right now. It's really unfortunate.
justinsb 13y ago
I posted this in another comment, but do you have any ideas as to why that information has to be verified in real time?
- dangrossman 13y ago
  Because it can be, and doing so provides a better experience. If you have the chance to design a system from scratch, you're going to want the best design you can afford, right? So why not create a marketplace where buying health coverage is as simple and straightforward as buying speakers on Amazon -- a list of products with prices and a buy button. The asynchronous alternative is a menu of plans you may or may not qualify for, at prices that may change after you apply, based on inputs many people will get wrong (unintentionally and otherwise), with a true cost that won't be known until someone does your taxes up to a year later and computes what subsidies you qualified for. Even if there's only a day between signing up and verifying your information, that turns an hour of "getting it done and over with" into a multi-day ordeal. Considering this is a mandated purchase for a lot of people, they want to devote multiple days to it about as much as they want to stand in a long line at their local DMV.
  - justinsb 13y ago
    I don't think any of the questions being asked were particularly hard: certainly no harder than doing your taxes. The system could clearly say "based on the information you provided, here are your options". I know it's nicer if it's instant, but I don't think anyone expected it to be instant; private health insurance is a multi-day process. Nobody is getting this health insurance until January. It sounds like the system is asynchronous anyway, in that it then goes off for further processing (no matter what the website promises). In any case, we're talking about a delay of a week at most; I'm not suggesting that nothing be verified until tax season.
- URSpider94 13y ago
  Because it's giving the user real-time access to which plans they are eligible for. The only other two options I can think of would be: -- Pre-verify all of the potential applicants, many of whom may already have coverage and never come to the exchange. -- Ask users a bunch of questions that they may or may not know the answers to.
  - justinsb 13y ago
    I really like the suggestion of doing the calculation for everyone in advance. We could even have sent a letter to everyone that would be better off if they enrolled.
  - hobs 13y ago
    Its a big database, but handling a db of that size isnt that hard of a problem (if you precomputed all results, and then threw the underlying details away because HOLY SHIT FIRE). If you batch processed the delta from the other agencies every night (or as soon as they could if better), it could work!
smsm42 13y ago
I tried to check prices on CA site on Oct 1. I never tried to sign up, so the system actually didn't have to go to IRS, DOD or DHS - I just wanted to see the plans offered. In fact, it had to do no more than look up a few tables and do a couple of basic calculations. Still, the site was as broken as one could be - about 75% of requests just timed out. The rest were presented in broken design and half-loaded pages. Navigation was completely broken. I spent couple of hours and many tries and retries until I could actually see how much an insurance plan would cost me. And LA times reports[1] the site has had 645K hits for the whole day. DOD, SS and VA is not the problem here - the site just had a crappy implementation. [1] http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-california-health-exchange-glitches-20131001,0,7108713.story http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-california-he...

cantankerous 13y ago

This. The article sorta pines in the end for smaller "more agile devs", but I'm not sure a small shop could just come in and bust this out. There is SO MANY legacy systems that need to interface with this beast. I wouldn't put it past the designers to have been rate-limited at 50,000 whatevers by one of the vendors of the other systems that they have to talk to. Computers from the IRS have been hanging in there sometimes as far back as 40 years ago. I'm sure systems at many other of the lettered agencies are hobbling along just as well. I totally agree that the government needs to become more lucrative to smaller more agile groups. I think it could ultimately get better products at lower prices if it opens up bidding. That said, the government has massive needs and massive legacy systems that many small shops may have a hard time reconciling. There's always ways to theorize about how the government could standardize and modernize its disparate stuff, but that requires strong leadership, a good direction, and money. None of these things appear to be in abundance right now. It's really unfortunate.

justinsb 13y ago

I posted this in another comment, but do you have any ideas as to why that information has to be verified in real time?

dangrossman 13y ago
Because it can be, and doing so provides a better experience. If you have the chance to design a system from scratch, you're going to want the best design you can afford, right? So why not create a marketplace where buying health coverage is as simple and straightforward as buying speakers on Amazon -- a list of products with prices and a buy button. The asynchronous alternative is a menu of plans you may or may not qualify for, at prices that may change after you apply, based on inputs many people will get wrong (unintentionally and otherwise), with a true cost that won't be known until someone does your taxes up to a year later and computes what subsidies you qualified for. Even if there's only a day between signing up and verifying your information, that turns an hour of "getting it done and over with" into a multi-day ordeal. Considering this is a mandated purchase for a lot of people, they want to devote multiple days to it about as much as they want to stand in a long line at their local DMV.
- justinsb 13y ago
  I don't think any of the questions being asked were particularly hard: certainly no harder than doing your taxes. The system could clearly say "based on the information you provided, here are your options". I know it's nicer if it's instant, but I don't think anyone expected it to be instant; private health insurance is a multi-day process. Nobody is getting this health insurance until January. It sounds like the system is asynchronous anyway, in that it then goes off for further processing (no matter what the website promises). In any case, we're talking about a delay of a week at most; I'm not suggesting that nothing be verified until tax season.
URSpider94 13y ago
Because it's giving the user real-time access to which plans they are eligible for. The only other two options I can think of would be: -- Pre-verify all of the potential applicants, many of whom may already have coverage and never come to the exchange. -- Ask users a bunch of questions that they may or may not know the answers to.
- justinsb 13y ago
  I really like the suggestion of doing the calculation for everyone in advance. We could even have sent a letter to everyone that would be better off if they enrolled.
- hobs 13y ago
  Its a big database, but handling a db of that size isnt that hard of a problem (if you precomputed all results, and then threw the underlying details away because HOLY SHIT FIRE). If you batch processed the delta from the other agencies every night (or as soon as they could if better), it could work!

smsm42 13y ago

I tried to check prices on CA site on Oct 1. I never tried to sign up, so the system actually didn't have to go to IRS, DOD or DHS - I just wanted to see the plans offered. In fact, it had to do no more than look up a few tables and do a couple of basic calculations. Still, the site was as broken as one could be - about 75% of requests just timed out. The rest were presented in broken design and half-loaded pages. Navigation was completely broken. I spent couple of hours and many tries and retries until I could actually see how much an insurance plan would cost me. And LA times reports[1] the site has had 645K hits for the whole day. DOD, SS and VA is not the problem here - the site just had a crappy implementation. [1] http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-california-health-exchange-glitches-20131001,0,7108713.story http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-california-he...