5 ms·

"unable to implement a simple linked list" "Vet the technical competency of full stack rails engineers..." because there are linked lists in ruby? rolleyes

"unable to implement a simple linked list" "Vet the technical competency of full stack rails engineers..." because there are linked lists in ruby? rolleyes 3 hrs of backend/algo testing? rolleyes 4 hrs of frontend? rolleyes I hope they enjoyed tooting their own horn, yet another place I know to avoid bothering to interview at.

lumens 13y ago
This. As a company, you miss out on the best candidates by implementing an interview process that serves your needs almost exclusively (at the expense of the candidate's desires). Why didn't the engineers sit around the room and say, "Why do only 1 of 100 candidates that we interview meet our bar? Are we sourcing the right people?" or "Why does it take us 8 hours of someones engineering time to figure out if we want them to meet the team?". Asking the best candidates–the ones you really want to hire–to do a full day of work just to be able to meet the team is insanity. Full disclosure: Founder of Mighty Spring (https://www.mightyspring.com https://www.mightyspring.com) — we're solving exactly these sorts of problems (for both companies and candidates) by turning a truly great recruiting interaction into a web service. Invites are sent out regularly.
yeukhon 13y ago
EDIT Sorry. If you can't implement linked list and think that first item is too much for an interview, HN is not the place to swing around. Keep downvoting lol. TL; DR version: It isn't fair to throw a company out of a windows because they are serious about their hiring process. It totally depends on their company's growth need! First bullet point is extremely fair but the rest aren't and I agree on that. Longer version: A lot of hackathon projects become startups and many of them don't require any algorithms. They can use libraries from Python and Ruby to do things they want to do. They can get away with a couple n^3 in their code and customers are okay as long as the service is stable. And then there are startups out there building products using real algorithms that really require the knowledge of graph and sorting, dynamic programming and etc. If they need an engineer that can build on top of existing algorithms, then that's what they need. I was a former intern at Mozilla and my interview was very simple and I really appreciate that. But what I do doesn't require me to know any sophisticated algorithm. I can survive with knowing Python and getting around with my brain. But interns on Firefox, servo and Rust probably had to face harder interviews, more tedious algorithmic types (although I heard most of those are basic too, like linked list and talk about C++). I am also looking for new internship this winter and I fear these algorithmic interviews too, but some companies have serious need and they need people who can at least implement a linked list is important. I don't bother to read what their needs are. I did roll my eyes when I looked at "3 hrs", "4hrs". That's a lot. But the first item: you don't even know how to write a linked list using your favorite language? Then that's the end. Linked list is not hard - you are not writing in C++ in this case. The 7.5 hr is a different story, but I won't trash at the first point.
- ojbyrne 13y ago
  "Implementing a linked list" is essentially measuring 1 of 2 things: 1. How long it has been since you graduated from college. The further away the less likely you will remember how to do it, because you will never do it after college. or 2. How often you have interviewed for other positions, because that is the exception to 1.
  - yeukhon 13y ago
    There is a reason why we have this thing called "time". You don't suddenly apply for a job do you? If you were senior, 10+ years why would you be interview at this company? I supposed there are better positions out there for you. Doesn't make sense with time. I didn't remember how to implement linked list after my class but I picked it up again over the summer as hobby to learn basic algorithm again.
    - jf22 13y ago
      I don't understand the point you are trying to make. You're saying implementing linked lists are good only if you are trying to hire recent college graduates who will prepare for an interview?
      - yeukhon 13y ago
        I never said that. I said if people think the first bullet point is too much to handle, that's blatantly stupid. It isn't like the company is asking you to implement a red-black tree. I am not a fan of puzzle solver so I hate that kind of interview. But linked list? Come on. it's like asking someone "Well, explain how list is implemented in Python" when you claim you have been programming with Python years. Well, if you can't even answer that question with a good estimate (it has a double space every time you create a list for example) then you probably shouldn't call yourself a Python guru.
  - buckbova 13y ago
    I'm over 10 years out of college. Last time I implemented a linked list was probably in my second year of a CS degree. I still remember and will probably never forget how to at least psuedo-code a linked list. But you are right, I have never implemented it after college. However knowledge of pointers, lists and b-trees have been very helpful multiple times throughout my career.

lumens 13y ago

This. As a company, you miss out on the best candidates by implementing an interview process that serves your needs almost exclusively (at the expense of the candidate's desires). Why didn't the engineers sit around the room and say, "Why do only 1 of 100 candidates that we interview meet our bar? Are we sourcing the right people?" or "Why does it take us 8 hours of someones engineering time to figure out if we want them to meet the team?". Asking the best candidates–the ones you really want to hire–to do a full day of work just to be able to meet the team is insanity. Full disclosure: Founder of Mighty Spring (https://www.mightyspring.com https://www.mightyspring.com) — we're solving exactly these sorts of problems (for both companies and candidates) by turning a truly great recruiting interaction into a web service. Invites are sent out regularly.

yeukhon 13y ago

EDIT Sorry. If you can't implement linked list and think that first item is too much for an interview, HN is not the place to swing around. Keep downvoting lol. TL; DR version: It isn't fair to throw a company out of a windows because they are serious about their hiring process. It totally depends on their company's growth need! First bullet point is extremely fair but the rest aren't and I agree on that. Longer version: A lot of hackathon projects become startups and many of them don't require any algorithms. They can use libraries from Python and Ruby to do things they want to do. They can get away with a couple n^3 in their code and customers are okay as long as the service is stable. And then there are startups out there building products using real algorithms that really require the knowledge of graph and sorting, dynamic programming and etc. If they need an engineer that can build on top of existing algorithms, then that's what they need. I was a former intern at Mozilla and my interview was very simple and I really appreciate that. But what I do doesn't require me to know any sophisticated algorithm. I can survive with knowing Python and getting around with my brain. But interns on Firefox, servo and Rust probably had to face harder interviews, more tedious algorithmic types (although I heard most of those are basic too, like linked list and talk about C++). I am also looking for new internship this winter and I fear these algorithmic interviews too, but some companies have serious need and they need people who can at least implement a linked list is important. I don't bother to read what their needs are. I did roll my eyes when I looked at "3 hrs", "4hrs". That's a lot. But the first item: you don't even know how to write a linked list using your favorite language? Then that's the end. Linked list is not hard - you are not writing in C++ in this case. The 7.5 hr is a different story, but I won't trash at the first point.

ojbyrne 13y ago
"Implementing a linked list" is essentially measuring 1 of 2 things: 1. How long it has been since you graduated from college. The further away the less likely you will remember how to do it, because you will never do it after college. or 2. How often you have interviewed for other positions, because that is the exception to 1.
- yeukhon 13y ago
  There is a reason why we have this thing called "time". You don't suddenly apply for a job do you? If you were senior, 10+ years why would you be interview at this company? I supposed there are better positions out there for you. Doesn't make sense with time. I didn't remember how to implement linked list after my class but I picked it up again over the summer as hobby to learn basic algorithm again.
  - jf22 13y ago
    I don't understand the point you are trying to make. You're saying implementing linked lists are good only if you are trying to hire recent college graduates who will prepare for an interview?
    - yeukhon 13y ago
      I never said that. I said if people think the first bullet point is too much to handle, that's blatantly stupid. It isn't like the company is asking you to implement a red-black tree. I am not a fan of puzzle solver so I hate that kind of interview. But linked list? Come on. it's like asking someone "Well, explain how list is implemented in Python" when you claim you have been programming with Python years. Well, if you can't even answer that question with a good estimate (it has a double space every time you create a list for example) then you probably shouldn't call yourself a Python guru.
- buckbova 13y ago
  I'm over 10 years out of college. Last time I implemented a linked list was probably in my second year of a CS degree. I still remember and will probably never forget how to at least psuedo-code a linked list. But you are right, I have never implemented it after college. However knowledge of pointers, lists and b-trees have been very helpful multiple times throughout my career.