3 ms·

Build awareness of the importance of the permanence of URIs and what they mean to Hypertext. The only full solution is a cultural one, not a technological one.

dionidium 13y ago
While I agree that there's a necessary cultural aspect here, it does not seem sufficient in this context. If the highest court in the land is citing a source in a decision, then that source needs to be available, by technological solution, if necessary, regardless of external, cultural forces.
jerf 13y ago
Culture isn't going to encourage people to host websites they're no longer interested in, where by "host websites" read "pay money for". The only solution is some form of legalized archiving. We need the right to copy for archiving without profit, or something. Not sketching out a full, legal solution here, just pointing out that it has to include some form of right-to-archive.
- chimeracoder 13y ago
  > We need the right to copy for archiving without profit, or something. Just throwing it out there - this is (in some sense) one of the intended purposes of the Library of Congress. The Library of Congress already even announced a few years back that they were planning on archiving every public tweet. Having them archive every video referenced in official documents (such as a Supreme Court decision) isn't that much of a stretch.
- jaggederest 13y ago
  That exists. Fair use covers non-profit educational uses, such as the awesome Internet Archive: http://archive.org/ http://archive.org/
  - InclinedPlane 13y ago
    Archive.org, as cool as it is, does not archive the entirety of the internet. Moreover, it's a bit silly to posit that one website that we can surely rely on to exist always! is the solution to the fact that you can never rely on the existence of any particular website in the future.
    - jaggederest 13y ago
      No, I'm not saying that "the internet archive completely solves this problem", what I'm saying is "there exists no legal barrier to making something like this a reality, since things like the internet archive already exist".
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Sure, sure. That's comparable to how to fix communism. All we need to do is change the way human beings work, change fundamental economic incentives, and everything will be golden. It's just not possible. There's only one way to fix these problems, and it's not something most people are ready to accept. It's to turn the internet inside out, from a client-server model to a store-and-forward model. It's to treat web content more like ebooks than like fliers posted to a cork board.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  Sounds like content-centric networking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-centric_networking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-centric_networking There are upsides, like decentralization, and downsides, like everybody knowing exactly what data you're asking for if it's strictly addressed by hash (no way of obscuring your political activities from an oppressive regime by using an unrelated name for common data).

dionidium 13y ago

While I agree that there's a necessary cultural aspect here, it does not seem sufficient in this context. If the highest court in the land is citing a source in a decision, then that source needs to be available, by technological solution, if necessary, regardless of external, cultural forces.

jerf 13y ago

Culture isn't going to encourage people to host websites they're no longer interested in, where by "host websites" read "pay money for". The only solution is some form of legalized archiving. We need the right to copy for archiving without profit, or something. Not sketching out a full, legal solution here, just pointing out that it has to include some form of right-to-archive.

chimeracoder 13y ago
> We need the right to copy for archiving without profit, or something. Just throwing it out there - this is (in some sense) one of the intended purposes of the Library of Congress. The Library of Congress already even announced a few years back that they were planning on archiving every public tweet. Having them archive every video referenced in official documents (such as a Supreme Court decision) isn't that much of a stretch.
jaggederest 13y ago
That exists. Fair use covers non-profit educational uses, such as the awesome Internet Archive: http://archive.org/ http://archive.org/
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Archive.org, as cool as it is, does not archive the entirety of the internet. Moreover, it's a bit silly to posit that one website that we can surely rely on to exist always! is the solution to the fact that you can never rely on the existence of any particular website in the future.
  - jaggederest 13y ago
    No, I'm not saying that "the internet archive completely solves this problem", what I'm saying is "there exists no legal barrier to making something like this a reality, since things like the internet archive already exist".

InclinedPlane 13y ago

Sure, sure. That's comparable to how to fix communism. All we need to do is change the way human beings work, change fundamental economic incentives, and everything will be golden. It's just not possible. There's only one way to fix these problems, and it's not something most people are ready to accept. It's to turn the internet inside out, from a client-server model to a store-and-forward model. It's to treat web content more like ebooks than like fliers posted to a cork board.

nitrogen 13y ago
Sounds like content-centric networking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-centric_networking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-centric_networking There are upsides, like decentralization, and downsides, like everybody knowing exactly what data you're asking for if it's strictly addressed by hash (no way of obscuring your political activities from an oppressive regime by using an unrelated name for common data).