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The word 'Service' is capitalised, implying that there's a definition elsewhere in the ToS. I found it at the end of the very first paragraph. "The term 'Serv

by amirmc 13y ago

The word 'Service' is capitalised, implying that there's a definition elsewhere in the ToS. I found it at the end of the very first paragraph. "The term 'Services' means the Site, Web App, Mobile Apps, and MyEnergy Service" (NB those terms are defined earlier in the same para). In other words, don't rely on the above things for life safety. That sounds fine to me and I also note that the video does not show alarm messages being sent to phones (though I'm sure it's a feature). A better question is in the absence of the above, will the alarm still go off if there's smoke/CO etc? In the UK, I doubt you'd be able to 'disclaim' your way out of it and there are probably minimum functionality/safety standards required before you could even market safety products. I'd expect the US to be similar.

joosters 13y ago
It's still not clear. The services and the products seem to overlap, especially as it is all software (the smoke alarm certainly has firmware/software on it to make it operate more intelligenttly) As the ToS also states: "AS DESCRIBED BELOW, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO AUTOMATIC SOFTWARE UPDATE OF THE SERVICES AND OF THE PRODUCTS CONNECTED TO THE SERVICES. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE SERVICES." The software, hardware and services are all closely tied together. The ToS has links to them all, and a failure in one part could easily be blamed upon the services and hence Nest could claim no responsibility. Again, I am not seeking to blame Nest here, I think they just need to update the ToS to make it crystal clear that they do think their new smoke alarm is a safety system and can be relied upon as such. Terms Of Service are often horrendously written and users should complain about such things to fix them.
- amirmc 13y ago
  Product is also a defined word [1]. I do understand what you're getting at but I disagree about the overlap you allude to. The ToS does delineate the difference between Services and hardware (Product). Failure in the firmware or software on the Product following an automatic update is clearly not an issue with Services (note deliberate capitalisation). I'd say the terms are pretty 'clear' about the differences in Services/Product but, as with all ToS, you need a fairly high reading level and sufficient time to properly understand them. That's why I put clear in quote marks. You may be arguing that they could be expressed in more human terms but that doesn't make them any more specific. [1] "Nest hardware products ('Products')"

by amirmc 13y ago

joosters 13y ago

It's still not clear. The services and the products seem to overlap, especially as it is all software (the smoke alarm certainly has firmware/software on it to make it operate more intelligenttly) As the ToS also states: "AS DESCRIBED BELOW, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO AUTOMATIC SOFTWARE UPDATE OF THE SERVICES AND OF THE PRODUCTS CONNECTED TO THE SERVICES. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE SERVICES." The software, hardware and services are all closely tied together. The ToS has links to them all, and a failure in one part could easily be blamed upon the services and hence Nest could claim no responsibility. Again, I am not seeking to blame Nest here, I think they just need to update the ToS to make it crystal clear that they do think their new smoke alarm is a safety system and can be relied upon as such. Terms Of Service are often horrendously written and users should complain about such things to fix them.

amirmc 13y ago
Product is also a defined word [1]. I do understand what you're getting at but I disagree about the overlap you allude to. The ToS does delineate the difference between Services and hardware (Product). Failure in the firmware or software on the Product following an automatic update is clearly not an issue with Services (note deliberate capitalisation). I'd say the terms are pretty 'clear' about the differences in Services/Product but, as with all ToS, you need a fairly high reading level and sufficient time to properly understand them. That's why I put clear in quote marks. You may be arguing that they could be expressed in more human terms but that doesn't make them any more specific. [1] "Nest hardware products ('Products')"