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Music as we know it. Rock and roll and popular music as an art form. Albums, 3 minute songs. Things that were designed to fit on to a plastic disc and be played

Music as we know it. Rock and roll and popular music as an art form. Albums, 3 minute songs. Things that were designed to fit on to a plastic disc and be played on the radio between commercial breaks. This is what made up the "music industry". Touring was a loss-leader to sell plastic to people up until about 10 years ago. You had to go out and make your sales! Come to town, have the local paper and radio do your marketing for you, people maybe come to your show or maybe go buy your album at a record store. That is going away. Hence, the art form will die along with the changing media landscape, because well, you know, The Medium is the Message. I'm not crying about this, BTW, I'm merely pointing out that the death has started. For fucks sake, I don't even really LIKE making records as much as I like writing and performing music with a group of people, so personally I'm enjoying these transformations. The point I'm making is, is yes, the music industry is dying. Something else will come along and replace it. Music won't die, but whatever we've become accustomed to over the last 80 years is quickly disappearing. Again, claims that this isn't happening are misinformed.

kbutler 13y ago
> a dying art form > music as we know it...is dying > the music industry is dying You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
- chollida1 13y ago
  > You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Both you and hacker news would be better off if you read this article and then commented to the parent with your rebuttal rather than what you think is a witty one liner with no substance. http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
  - kbutler 13y ago
    The rebuttal is obvious from the graph (the central point in the article, which was hyperbolically disputed above): Music isn't dying - the industry around it is evolving. That's what happens when new technology is introduced into an existing business model - the industry changes. Existing players may exit the market (some may even "die"), some struggle, some adapt to the change and thrive, and other new players enter. > a dying art form > music as we know it...is dying > the music industry is dying Music as an art form is largely unchanged, especially the more artistic, less "pop music"-focused forms. The music industry is refocusing on live performance and the long tail, and less on retail sales of pre-recorded physical media. Adapting, evolving, changing, transforming. Maybe declining, shrinking, endangered, troubled. Maybe broadening, renewing, refreshing. "Dying" doesn't describe it well at all. I don't think it means what you think it means.
OvidNaso 13y ago
All of your examples have to do with minor minutia of the day to day life of a musician, but you give no examples of how the actual landscape of music has changed. And I find it baffling if the point is that the focus and work required by an artist today is more different compared to one 10 years ago than it was for that artist compared to one 50 years ago. Television, music videos, global marketing, magazine specialization. These things didn't alter a musicians life more than the current decline in retail sales? Please expand and explain, because Albums, 3 minute songs, radio play with commercial breaks and touring are all very very similar to 10 years ago from a consumer perspective despite the proliferation of other choices and the changing landscape.
- williamcotton 13y ago
  Dude, we haven't seen the landscape change yet because no one knows what the fuck is going on. Let me put it this way. Should I make my art in the form a 180 minute long atonal sound collage that can only be heard by buying a custom piece of machinery that is installed in your house OR should I make my art form 55 minutes of music that can fit on a Compact Disc? Think of shipping containers. Should I make my own custom shipping container or should I go with the modern, modular standard? The medium affects the kind of art that is made. The reason we even ended up with the three minute single and the LP have more to do with the physical limitations of vinyl than anything else. An entire industry and culture sprung up around this. It is prohibitively difficult for a musician to go outside of the well established path of the current industry to make and share their music. Music isn't about 3 minute songs, it isn't about albums, or anything of the sort. It conforms to the momentum of culture and technology as much as it inspires the technology and culture. It will survive, but the current culture and industry will of course go away, and with it, the entire art form. Think about that phrase. ART FORM. Roll it around in your mouth, taste it on your tongue. Art will always be made, but it's shape is constantly in motion.
  - whiddershins 13y ago
    Hey man, shameless but on-topic plug. I believe I am on to the solution. http://gralbumcollective.com/about.html http://gralbumcollective.com/about.html
belorn 13y ago
So long there is a commercial need for 3 minute songs, there will be 3 minute songs. Piracy as the article talks about is non-commercial p2p kind of piracy. That means when a theater group want a song, or a company producing advertisements, or a movie, or a game, or a bar or any other commercial entity want a short song, they will have to buy one. With commercial interest, musicians will produce music to full fill said demand, and 3 minute songs get produced. It might be a smaller market than the one during the 80s, but a smaller market is still more than none at all.

kbutler 13y ago

> a dying art form > music as we know it...is dying > the music industry is dying You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

chollida1 13y ago
> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Both you and hacker news would be better off if you read this article and then commented to the parent with your rebuttal rather than what you think is a witty one liner with no substance. http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
- kbutler 13y ago
  The rebuttal is obvious from the graph (the central point in the article, which was hyperbolically disputed above): Music isn't dying - the industry around it is evolving. That's what happens when new technology is introduced into an existing business model - the industry changes. Existing players may exit the market (some may even "die"), some struggle, some adapt to the change and thrive, and other new players enter. > a dying art form > music as we know it...is dying > the music industry is dying Music as an art form is largely unchanged, especially the more artistic, less "pop music"-focused forms. The music industry is refocusing on live performance and the long tail, and less on retail sales of pre-recorded physical media. Adapting, evolving, changing, transforming. Maybe declining, shrinking, endangered, troubled. Maybe broadening, renewing, refreshing. "Dying" doesn't describe it well at all. I don't think it means what you think it means.

OvidNaso 13y ago

All of your examples have to do with minor minutia of the day to day life of a musician, but you give no examples of how the actual landscape of music has changed. And I find it baffling if the point is that the focus and work required by an artist today is more different compared to one 10 years ago than it was for that artist compared to one 50 years ago. Television, music videos, global marketing, magazine specialization. These things didn't alter a musicians life more than the current decline in retail sales? Please expand and explain, because Albums, 3 minute songs, radio play with commercial breaks and touring are all very very similar to 10 years ago from a consumer perspective despite the proliferation of other choices and the changing landscape.

williamcotton 13y ago
Dude, we haven't seen the landscape change yet because no one knows what the fuck is going on. Let me put it this way. Should I make my art in the form a 180 minute long atonal sound collage that can only be heard by buying a custom piece of machinery that is installed in your house OR should I make my art form 55 minutes of music that can fit on a Compact Disc? Think of shipping containers. Should I make my own custom shipping container or should I go with the modern, modular standard? The medium affects the kind of art that is made. The reason we even ended up with the three minute single and the LP have more to do with the physical limitations of vinyl than anything else. An entire industry and culture sprung up around this. It is prohibitively difficult for a musician to go outside of the well established path of the current industry to make and share their music. Music isn't about 3 minute songs, it isn't about albums, or anything of the sort. It conforms to the momentum of culture and technology as much as it inspires the technology and culture. It will survive, but the current culture and industry will of course go away, and with it, the entire art form. Think about that phrase. ART FORM. Roll it around in your mouth, taste it on your tongue. Art will always be made, but it's shape is constantly in motion.
- whiddershins 13y ago
  Hey man, shameless but on-topic plug. I believe I am on to the solution. http://gralbumcollective.com/about.html http://gralbumcollective.com/about.html

belorn 13y ago

So long there is a commercial need for 3 minute songs, there will be 3 minute songs. Piracy as the article talks about is non-commercial p2p kind of piracy. That means when a theater group want a song, or a company producing advertisements, or a movie, or a game, or a bar or any other commercial entity want a short song, they will have to buy one. With commercial interest, musicians will produce music to full fill said demand, and 3 minute songs get produced. It might be a smaller market than the one during the 80s, but a smaller market is still more than none at all.