4 ms·

Because, you know, sometimes it's more complicated than what you eat, like when you have, you know, medical conditions like the one stated in, you know, the art

by kyro 13y ago

Because, you know, sometimes it's more complicated than what you eat, like when you have, you know, medical conditions like the one stated in, you know, the article. But congratulations on your weight loss and newfound abilities to generalize a condition that endocrinologists and geneticists have been researching for decades.

Uberphallus 13y ago
Because, you know, I already stated that there are exceptions, only they're rather exceptional than the norm, as in US or Mexico. Geographically correlated obesity is explained by nutrition culture, not by geographically selective medical conditions.
- chris_wot 13y ago
  Seriously, I'd like you to back that statement with some hard data. Not because I necessarily disbelieve you (lifestyle is a HUGE cause of weight problems), but because I think you underestimate how many people suffer from medical disorders.
  - Uberphallus 13y ago
    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Why-people-become-overweight.htm http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Why-people-become-ove... In particular these two paragraphs: Illnesses that affect weight A few illnesses that are characterized by an imbalance or an abnormality in your endocrine glands can also affect your weight. These include hypothyroidism (an underactive thyroid), polycystic ovarian syndrome, and certain unusual tumors of the pituitary gland, adrenal glands, or the pancreas. However, in the vast majority of people, these illnesses are not responsible for weight gain. Most are extremely rare. Hypothyroidism, which is the most common, is seldom the main reason for overweight or obesity. Treatment with thyroid hormone, while medically necessary, does not usually cause a significant weight reduction. Genetic disorders Obesity is also a symptom of some rare and complex disorders caused by genetic defects. These obesity syndromes usually appear in early childhood and are tied to several additional medical problems. One such disorder is Prader-Willi syndrome, a form of obesity associated with mild mental retardation that occurs in about 1 in 25,000 people and has been traced to abnormalities in a group of genes on chromosome 15. People with this disorder are unusually short and have primarily upper-body obesity. A less common disorder, Bardet-Biedl syndrome, is similar to Prader-Willi syndrome, but is caused by abnormalities in different genes. Several other rare genetic syndromes cause obesity, but account for only a tiny fraction of all weight disorders.
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      Thank you. I appreciate the link.
- kyro 13y ago
  We were supposed to learn what from your comment? You lost weight and now you're spewing judgmental advice. Am I now supposed to look at a fat person with scorn and immediately assume that they're lazy slobs? Should I suppress feelings of empathy? What is the actual point of what you're saying? You spent 99% of your comment talking about your success and how you've gained insight into the unsatisfactory habits of others, and all of 1% acknowledging that it may be more complicated. And within that 1% you literally state that only 1% of fat people are losing to more than a simple mathematical equation. I know you coders like your elegant algorithms, but life is bit more messy than that.
  - cgh 13y ago
    Are you similarly empathic towards smokers?
    - nmullaney 13y ago
      Why wouldn't someone be empathetic towards smokers? They got hooked on an addictive substance at some point in their life and are now stuck with an unhealthy compulsion.
      - meepmorp 13y ago
        I think the unstated assumption OP is making is that fat people got hooked on food, and can't be responsible and give up their addiction. And while it may be hard to do, you only owe your inability to stick with quitting for your continued problems. Born again skinny people are particularly severe in this regard, since they've likely overcome their own personal issues with food (for now, at least) and so see that experience in everyone else. Maybe they made physiological excuses before, and tend to discount those issues in others; maybe their own feelings of weakness don't allow them to be especially empathetic. And, the analogy to smoking is fatally flawed. Nobody needs cigarettes, but everyone has to eat.
sigkill 13y ago
I've noticed this general tendency to focus on the edge cases to make the rules. This is how we end up with crazy security theatre instead of real security and pointlessly drifting away from the topic. He is sharing his experience which probably applies to the majority of the people but no, use edge cases to justify your stance and feel good about having the moral high ground. Congratulations on your ability to focus on the edge cases and not the majority of the bell curve. EDIT - Guys, no don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about THIS specific article or about being fat or anything. It's just that for the past year or so I've been in any online community (even the other one) I've noticed this. Sure, I get it - Innocent until proven guilty and all, but sometimes, things really are as simple as they appear to be. [Oh, and dear parent poster, I'm a bit sorry for the "Congratulations on your ability to ..." but that was just me getting upset that people aren't looking at the bigger picture.]
- kyro 13y ago
  Haha, I'll bite. I can turn around and say that treating 99% of fat people as lazy slobs is the same kind of generalization that leads to security theater when we assume everyone is a threat to our national security. What's the difference between your and my asinine analogies? Yours pushes to look at people in a more judgmental and critical way because you're almost certain they sit towards the meaty middle of the "bell curve" (bell curve of what exactly?). Mine pushes to treat everyone with a higher level of empathy and acceptance. Could an overweight person just be lazy? Sure! Could it be due to more than that? Certainly! In fact, the type of shitty and ignorant comments this article talks about are most certainly fueled by the idea that most fat people are lazy victim-card playing slobs. Turns out it was a little more complicated for her.
  - sigkill 13y ago
    I think I didn't make myself clear in my previous comment (which I've edited btw). It's not about THIS article or THAT article or anything. It's just that I've found when you (not you you, but the general you) focus on edge cases you lose sight of the bigger picture. Sure it may help you win an internet argument by appealing to emotion ("Terrorists will come again", or "She's not lazy, she has a real problem"). I don't disagree with those points but sometimes those are just too small in the probability field that we need to ignore them. For instance, each iteration of the Rabin Miller test reduces the probability that a number is composite by 10^-4. So sure, you might argue "Well, you never know if the 16384-bit number is prime or not merely on running the rabin miller test 10 times because there's still a 1 in 10^-40 chance it's not prime so you method is invalid." I find this kinds of arguments infuriating.
billmalarky 13y ago
Medical conditions (and often, medications taken to treat certain conditions) only make it more difficult to lose weight. They don't make it impossible. I really don't like reading lines like "I eat right (most of the time) and I exercise (an inordinate amount), but it does little, thanks to a struggle with polycystic ovarian syndrome and a failing thyroid gland" because it suggests that weight loss is simply impossible for some people. And yet time and time again people with these and other weight-gaining diseases prove this wrong. 99.99% of the time people who struggle to lose weight are simply not following a successful weight loss plan to the letter. I would bet a pretty large sum of money, that if she got help (either online for free, or from a professional trainer/dietitian for not-so-free) and actually followed through with a proven action plan, the weight would come off. If she stuck to the plan, the weight would stay off. It would probably be more difficult for her than for a healthy person, but to suggest that she has no choice but to be overweight is disingenuous.
- kyro 13y ago
  Nowhere did I ever in any comment state or even imply that she had no choice. For you to characterize my position in that way is disingenuous of you.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by kyro 13y ago

Uberphallus 13y ago

Because, you know, I already stated that there are exceptions, only they're rather exceptional than the norm, as in US or Mexico. Geographically correlated obesity is explained by nutrition culture, not by geographically selective medical conditions.

chris_wot 13y ago
Seriously, I'd like you to back that statement with some hard data. Not because I necessarily disbelieve you (lifestyle is a HUGE cause of weight problems), but because I think you underestimate how many people suffer from medical disorders.
- Uberphallus 13y ago
  http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Why-people-become-overweight.htm http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Why-people-become-ove... In particular these two paragraphs: Illnesses that affect weight A few illnesses that are characterized by an imbalance or an abnormality in your endocrine glands can also affect your weight. These include hypothyroidism (an underactive thyroid), polycystic ovarian syndrome, and certain unusual tumors of the pituitary gland, adrenal glands, or the pancreas. However, in the vast majority of people, these illnesses are not responsible for weight gain. Most are extremely rare. Hypothyroidism, which is the most common, is seldom the main reason for overweight or obesity. Treatment with thyroid hormone, while medically necessary, does not usually cause a significant weight reduction. Genetic disorders Obesity is also a symptom of some rare and complex disorders caused by genetic defects. These obesity syndromes usually appear in early childhood and are tied to several additional medical problems. One such disorder is Prader-Willi syndrome, a form of obesity associated with mild mental retardation that occurs in about 1 in 25,000 people and has been traced to abnormalities in a group of genes on chromosome 15. People with this disorder are unusually short and have primarily upper-body obesity. A less common disorder, Bardet-Biedl syndrome, is similar to Prader-Willi syndrome, but is caused by abnormalities in different genes. Several other rare genetic syndromes cause obesity, but account for only a tiny fraction of all weight disorders.
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    Thank you. I appreciate the link.
kyro 13y ago
We were supposed to learn what from your comment? You lost weight and now you're spewing judgmental advice. Am I now supposed to look at a fat person with scorn and immediately assume that they're lazy slobs? Should I suppress feelings of empathy? What is the actual point of what you're saying? You spent 99% of your comment talking about your success and how you've gained insight into the unsatisfactory habits of others, and all of 1% acknowledging that it may be more complicated. And within that 1% you literally state that only 1% of fat people are losing to more than a simple mathematical equation. I know you coders like your elegant algorithms, but life is bit more messy than that.
- cgh 13y ago
  Are you similarly empathic towards smokers?
  - nmullaney 13y ago
    Why wouldn't someone be empathetic towards smokers? They got hooked on an addictive substance at some point in their life and are now stuck with an unhealthy compulsion.
    - meepmorp 13y ago
      I think the unstated assumption OP is making is that fat people got hooked on food, and can't be responsible and give up their addiction. And while it may be hard to do, you only owe your inability to stick with quitting for your continued problems. Born again skinny people are particularly severe in this regard, since they've likely overcome their own personal issues with food (for now, at least) and so see that experience in everyone else. Maybe they made physiological excuses before, and tend to discount those issues in others; maybe their own feelings of weakness don't allow them to be especially empathetic. And, the analogy to smoking is fatally flawed. Nobody needs cigarettes, but everyone has to eat.

sigkill 13y ago

I've noticed this general tendency to focus on the edge cases to make the rules. This is how we end up with crazy security theatre instead of real security and pointlessly drifting away from the topic. He is sharing his experience which probably applies to the majority of the people but no, use edge cases to justify your stance and feel good about having the moral high ground. Congratulations on your ability to focus on the edge cases and not the majority of the bell curve. EDIT - Guys, no don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about THIS specific article or about being fat or anything. It's just that for the past year or so I've been in any online community (even the other one) I've noticed this. Sure, I get it - Innocent until proven guilty and all, but sometimes, things really are as simple as they appear to be. [Oh, and dear parent poster, I'm a bit sorry for the "Congratulations on your ability to ..." but that was just me getting upset that people aren't looking at the bigger picture.]

kyro 13y ago
Haha, I'll bite. I can turn around and say that treating 99% of fat people as lazy slobs is the same kind of generalization that leads to security theater when we assume everyone is a threat to our national security. What's the difference between your and my asinine analogies? Yours pushes to look at people in a more judgmental and critical way because you're almost certain they sit towards the meaty middle of the "bell curve" (bell curve of what exactly?). Mine pushes to treat everyone with a higher level of empathy and acceptance. Could an overweight person just be lazy? Sure! Could it be due to more than that? Certainly! In fact, the type of shitty and ignorant comments this article talks about are most certainly fueled by the idea that most fat people are lazy victim-card playing slobs. Turns out it was a little more complicated for her.
- sigkill 13y ago
  I think I didn't make myself clear in my previous comment (which I've edited btw). It's not about THIS article or THAT article or anything. It's just that I've found when you (not you you, but the general you) focus on edge cases you lose sight of the bigger picture. Sure it may help you win an internet argument by appealing to emotion ("Terrorists will come again", or "She's not lazy, she has a real problem"). I don't disagree with those points but sometimes those are just too small in the probability field that we need to ignore them. For instance, each iteration of the Rabin Miller test reduces the probability that a number is composite by 10^-4. So sure, you might argue "Well, you never know if the 16384-bit number is prime or not merely on running the rabin miller test 10 times because there's still a 1 in 10^-40 chance it's not prime so you method is invalid." I find this kinds of arguments infuriating.

billmalarky 13y ago

Medical conditions (and often, medications taken to treat certain conditions) only make it more difficult to lose weight. They don't make it impossible. I really don't like reading lines like "I eat right (most of the time) and I exercise (an inordinate amount), but it does little, thanks to a struggle with polycystic ovarian syndrome and a failing thyroid gland" because it suggests that weight loss is simply impossible for some people. And yet time and time again people with these and other weight-gaining diseases prove this wrong. 99.99% of the time people who struggle to lose weight are simply not following a successful weight loss plan to the letter. I would bet a pretty large sum of money, that if she got help (either online for free, or from a professional trainer/dietitian for not-so-free) and actually followed through with a proven action plan, the weight would come off. If she stuck to the plan, the weight would stay off. It would probably be more difficult for her than for a healthy person, but to suggest that she has no choice but to be overweight is disingenuous.

kyro 13y ago
Nowhere did I ever in any comment state or even imply that she had no choice. For you to characterize my position in that way is disingenuous of you.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]