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Science labs will all be virtual? Yeah, right. Sometimes you need to get your hands dirty and reading about it or watching it does not provide the same experi

by evgen 17y ago

Science labs will all be virtual? Yeah, right. Sometimes you need to get your hands dirty and reading about it or watching it does not provide the same experience. This guy seems to be really in-love with computer-mediated education, but seems to have a big blind spot regarding the experiences it will never provide and the weaknesses inherent in the medium. The whole process of higher-education will change significantly in the next ten years, but not so much that the university will disappear, become irrelevant, or even be unrecognizable to anyone familiar with its current form. File this one under "futurist with a book or contracting gigs to sell..."

buugs 17y ago
I can see some degrees becoming virtual, computer science may be one, but things like those based on history or other less interactive environments may be perfect for virtual learning however as a student for an engineering degree I would no way have learned anywhere near as much online than interaction with labs and the interactive environment with professors (asking questions/correcting/furthering understanding).
heed 17y ago
I know the comments below illuminate some good examples, but what experiences specifically do you feel can never be replaced by a virtual environment? I agree that it is not quite there yet, but with an increase in internet speeds and some fancy videoconferencing it might not be that far off...
- evgen 17y ago
  I would say that online lectures and current video-conferencing provides about 80-90% equivalent experience while the class size is above 50 or so; once you get to smaller classes the online lecture becomes about as worthwhile as a lecture on DVD. Beyond general survey courses it is of marginal benefit to anyone who is not an autodidact. Some of the current high-end video-conference setups come close (e.g. the ones that are basically multiple cameras and a screen that is wall-sized) but these are really only suitable for point-to-point remote learning and not situations where the "class" will be distributed in hundreds of locations.
- tedunangst 17y ago
  The experience of plugging in a diode backwards vs a popup that says "pop". When getting it wrong means you can't get it right (without replacing components) you pay more attention to what you're doing.
- billswift 17y ago
  Labwork is supposedly, at least within your major, training for doing original research. Without the rich complexity and messiness of the real world you are not going to learn what potential problems (and especially, unexpected details) to watch for. For those going through the motions for "breadth" courses, VR (once it's good enough) would be fine.
Anon84 17y ago
I'm sure they'll all be virtual one day, at least as far as basic science is concerned. But they'll also be called holo decks and not science labs. ;)
vaksel 17y ago
well considering the fact that you need to go to a special building to go to your labs class, I don't see why the same thing couldn't happen in the future. Take your lecture online. And once a week come in to take the lab class
- Scriptor 17y ago
  And who will pay the for the instructors, the manuals, the instruments, the lab materials, etc? At least for science labs, there's no "special building", just a specialized room. Also, in majors such as biology universities house research projects that can give students the chance to practically apply their knowledge. I doubt other research organizations, like corporations, would be as willing to teach students in the same way. Even if they did, it'd be a shame for a student's first experience with real science to be for commercial pursuits and not basic science.
oldgregg 17y ago
Teachers unions have way too much influence for anything to happen within the establishment. We're in a downward spiral. Government is only getting bigger and if anything the unions will only strengthen their position. The establishment will largely contribute to the end of American hegemony largely for personal gain and power. Don't believe for a second that the heart of people who run the academy is demonstrably any different from people who run every major corporation. Obama is in the process of punishing large "Republican" institutions like banks and the military industrial complex and shifting the balance of power to more favorable institutions like the academy. You're naive if you think it's anything more than polishing the brass on the titanic. I have much more hope in programs like YCombinator -- hopefully regulation won't prevent hybrid/apprentice programs from being created in other disciplines.
timwiseman 17y ago
The title is incredibly inflamatory and a vast overreach, but the contents of the article are much more moderated. The actual contents of the article talk much more about university's need to adapt and use the new technology and never says they will be fully irrelevant.
pgebhard 17y ago
Being currently enrolled in an online master's degree program for computer science at Illinois, I can tell you that I don't feel as if I am getting as much out of it as I did as an undergrad. The lectures are far more convenient in an online form since I can watch them at any time, pause them, rewind them, jump around the slides. Occasionally, I wish that I could be able to ask questions, but I know that I can always email the prof. separately or involve the entire class by posting a question to a newsgroup. Newsgroups (and forums), by the way, are great in this setup. Unfortunately, my experiences in working on a project (pretty much for every class) leave a lot to be desired. Working remotely with others can be really difficult due to schedule conflicts and lack of face-to-face communication. Skype-ing is amazingly helpful, but is no way close to sitting down with your teammates in a study room and brainstorming/hacking. Long silences while thinking becomes awkward when you can't see other's body language. I suppose video chat could help here, but I still think the teamwork experience is really lost when this kind of study is completely online.

by evgen 17y ago

buugs 17y ago

I can see some degrees becoming virtual, computer science may be one, but things like those based on history or other less interactive environments may be perfect for virtual learning however as a student for an engineering degree I would no way have learned anywhere near as much online than interaction with labs and the interactive environment with professors (asking questions/correcting/furthering understanding).

heed 17y ago

I know the comments below illuminate some good examples, but what experiences specifically do you feel can never be replaced by a virtual environment? I agree that it is not quite there yet, but with an increase in internet speeds and some fancy videoconferencing it might not be that far off...

evgen 17y ago
I would say that online lectures and current video-conferencing provides about 80-90% equivalent experience while the class size is above 50 or so; once you get to smaller classes the online lecture becomes about as worthwhile as a lecture on DVD. Beyond general survey courses it is of marginal benefit to anyone who is not an autodidact. Some of the current high-end video-conference setups come close (e.g. the ones that are basically multiple cameras and a screen that is wall-sized) but these are really only suitable for point-to-point remote learning and not situations where the "class" will be distributed in hundreds of locations.
tedunangst 17y ago
The experience of plugging in a diode backwards vs a popup that says "pop". When getting it wrong means you can't get it right (without replacing components) you pay more attention to what you're doing.
billswift 17y ago
Labwork is supposedly, at least within your major, training for doing original research. Without the rich complexity and messiness of the real world you are not going to learn what potential problems (and especially, unexpected details) to watch for. For those going through the motions for "breadth" courses, VR (once it's good enough) would be fine.

Anon84 17y ago

I'm sure they'll all be virtual one day, at least as far as basic science is concerned. But they'll also be called holo decks and not science labs. ;)

vaksel 17y ago

well considering the fact that you need to go to a special building to go to your labs class, I don't see why the same thing couldn't happen in the future. Take your lecture online. And once a week come in to take the lab class

Scriptor 17y ago
And who will pay the for the instructors, the manuals, the instruments, the lab materials, etc? At least for science labs, there's no "special building", just a specialized room. Also, in majors such as biology universities house research projects that can give students the chance to practically apply their knowledge. I doubt other research organizations, like corporations, would be as willing to teach students in the same way. Even if they did, it'd be a shame for a student's first experience with real science to be for commercial pursuits and not basic science.

oldgregg 17y ago

Teachers unions have way too much influence for anything to happen within the establishment. We're in a downward spiral. Government is only getting bigger and if anything the unions will only strengthen their position. The establishment will largely contribute to the end of American hegemony largely for personal gain and power. Don't believe for a second that the heart of people who run the academy is demonstrably any different from people who run every major corporation. Obama is in the process of punishing large "Republican" institutions like banks and the military industrial complex and shifting the balance of power to more favorable institutions like the academy. You're naive if you think it's anything more than polishing the brass on the titanic. I have much more hope in programs like YCombinator -- hopefully regulation won't prevent hybrid/apprentice programs from being created in other disciplines.

timwiseman 17y ago

The title is incredibly inflamatory and a vast overreach, but the contents of the article are much more moderated. The actual contents of the article talk much more about university's need to adapt and use the new technology and never says they will be fully irrelevant.

pgebhard 17y ago

Being currently enrolled in an online master's degree program for computer science at Illinois, I can tell you that I don't feel as if I am getting as much out of it as I did as an undergrad. The lectures are far more convenient in an online form since I can watch them at any time, pause them, rewind them, jump around the slides. Occasionally, I wish that I could be able to ask questions, but I know that I can always email the prof. separately or involve the entire class by posting a question to a newsgroup. Newsgroups (and forums), by the way, are great in this setup. Unfortunately, my experiences in working on a project (pretty much for every class) leave a lot to be desired. Working remotely with others can be really difficult due to schedule conflicts and lack of face-to-face communication. Skype-ing is amazingly helpful, but is no way close to sitting down with your teammates in a study room and brainstorming/hacking. Long silences while thinking becomes awkward when you can't see other's body language. I suppose video chat could help here, but I still think the teamwork experience is really lost when this kind of study is completely online.