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I actually thought this article would be about the psychological impact of thinking about your time as money. Personally, I've noticed that knowing and interna

I actually thought this article would be about the psychological impact of thinking about your time as money. Personally, I've noticed that knowing and internalizing my hourly rate has decreased my enjoyment of life. When you contemplate the opportunity cost of even an hour with friends (>$100) it's hard to have much fun. Has anyone encountered research on this topic?

kanwisher 13y ago
Generally there is a reasonable limit on the number of billable hours you can have in a week and be productive. So once you hit that cap, for me is 45-50. Then you just don't have to put a price on the fun cause you've already maxed out your potential money for the week.
- morgante 13y ago
  > Generally there is a reasonable limit on the number of billable hours you can have in a week and be productive. I actually haven't found this even when working about 80 hours a week (~60 externally billable). The key is splitting it between 3 things: 1 primary employer; smaller contracts; building my own startup. The variation in work definitely keeps things interesting and productive.
dalek_cannes 13y ago
Thinking of opportunity costs in general is usually a downer in any context. It's a "could have" and wherever there is a "could have", a "should have" is not too far behind. Regret is never a good thing. Also, a lot of people recognize that time is money, but rarely do they think that money is time. They never use their money to buy back time. Instead they use it to make more money. And now they have to spend more time protecting, managing and investing that money because if they don't, they'll feel bad about the opportunity cost of their money sitting in the bank and being eroded by inflation. And enough people know how to earn money, but most people don't know how to spend it. When I say spend, I don't mean waste or reinvest. Consider: if you give someone X dollars, he will start by eating better food; give him 2X and he'll dress better; 3X and he'll buy a better car; 10X, a better house. This is usually where people's imagination start to fail them. 20x? Er... buy an even better car and a better house. 50x? Buy two cars and two houses. 100X? Buy a yatch. 200X? Buy a private jet. Notice that after the lower levels of Marslow's hierarchy have been satisfied, people just don't know what to spend their money on. All they can think of is buying bigger and bigger versions of what they already have. You can't eat away a $100 million no matter how much expensive food you eat. You can't live in all the rooms of a 50-room mansion. All you can do is use your money to make more money or waste it. Not many think of spending it to buy back your time -- spend it doing something you like.
- TheSOB88 13y ago
  Problem is, once you're rich and your safety is guaranteed, what's there to keep you in line? Where's your incentive to act in a certain way? You could be pulled in a million different directions over a year, try a million different side projects, and succeed at none of them. It wouldn't have any effect on your longevity if you were that rich. You'd just be wasting your time floundering around. You'd probably get pretty miserable if this happened. You'd feel like your actions have no effect on your life, which they wouldn't have to. Anyways, money is scary.
- charlysisto 13y ago
  Excellent point. For me the main use/luxury of money is not having to think about it.
- nicklovescode 13y ago
  I have an article in drafts named "Money is Time" about this subject. I've heard the idea of money being used to buy time much more in some circles than others, and I would like to push the idea that it's an option.
- morgante 13y ago
  Great point. I actually do deploy this technique fairly effectively, but solely as an "investment." Thus, I use money to buy time which I use to earn money. (For example, paying for my laundry to be done so that I have more time to work.) Obviously I still need to learn that increasing a random number in a bank balance doesn't actually affect my life at all.
- sameer_sundresh 13y ago
  It's pretty common to buy things for friends and family, in the hopes of improving the quality of their lives and the quality and amount of time you can spend with them (this doesn't always work out as planned). It's also pretty common to not just buy tangible objects directly for yourself, but to buy the sort of community you want to live in. Endowing museums, universities and hospitals, sponsoring the artists and politicians that suit your tastes (and not just your business interests), etc.
meric 13y ago
Value your friends more. Time with friends: priceless. (This applies only first X hours each week spent with each friend). After all, if you're deciding to spend your time with them even though you have such a high hourly rate, they must be very good friends. When you die, would you regret not spending enough time making money or not spending time with your friends more?
tehwalrus 13y ago
if my hourly rate were >$100, I'd be working <20 hours a week, because $2000 is enough to pay for (+ rent bills toys), and I'd have the rest of the time to do stuff I actually wanted to do.
- morgante 13y ago
  $2000 doesn't go that far in NYC. You can certainly live on it, but you're not saving much and you're not living a fantastic lifestyle.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    The principle is the same wherever you set the threshold - earn enough to live, in as few hours as possible, then live in the rest of the hours. As software engineers, we're paid enough to be able to do 4 or even 3 day weeks and chill out/hack for fun the rest of the time. When I escape my PhD (if I don't do a 24/7 startup) I'll be seeing how few hours I can work and still pay the bills.

kanwisher 13y ago

Generally there is a reasonable limit on the number of billable hours you can have in a week and be productive. So once you hit that cap, for me is 45-50. Then you just don't have to put a price on the fun cause you've already maxed out your potential money for the week.

morgante 13y ago
> Generally there is a reasonable limit on the number of billable hours you can have in a week and be productive. I actually haven't found this even when working about 80 hours a week (~60 externally billable). The key is splitting it between 3 things: 1 primary employer; smaller contracts; building my own startup. The variation in work definitely keeps things interesting and productive.

dalek_cannes 13y ago

Thinking of opportunity costs in general is usually a downer in any context. It's a "could have" and wherever there is a "could have", a "should have" is not too far behind. Regret is never a good thing. Also, a lot of people recognize that time is money, but rarely do they think that money is time. They never use their money to buy back time. Instead they use it to make more money. And now they have to spend more time protecting, managing and investing that money because if they don't, they'll feel bad about the opportunity cost of their money sitting in the bank and being eroded by inflation. And enough people know how to earn money, but most people don't know how to spend it. When I say spend, I don't mean waste or reinvest. Consider: if you give someone X dollars, he will start by eating better food; give him 2X and he'll dress better; 3X and he'll buy a better car; 10X, a better house. This is usually where people's imagination start to fail them. 20x? Er... buy an even better car and a better house. 50x? Buy two cars and two houses. 100X? Buy a yatch. 200X? Buy a private jet. Notice that after the lower levels of Marslow's hierarchy have been satisfied, people just don't know what to spend their money on. All they can think of is buying bigger and bigger versions of what they already have. You can't eat away a $100 million no matter how much expensive food you eat. You can't live in all the rooms of a 50-room mansion. All you can do is use your money to make more money or waste it. Not many think of spending it to buy back your time -- spend it doing something you like.

TheSOB88 13y ago
Problem is, once you're rich and your safety is guaranteed, what's there to keep you in line? Where's your incentive to act in a certain way? You could be pulled in a million different directions over a year, try a million different side projects, and succeed at none of them. It wouldn't have any effect on your longevity if you were that rich. You'd just be wasting your time floundering around. You'd probably get pretty miserable if this happened. You'd feel like your actions have no effect on your life, which they wouldn't have to. Anyways, money is scary.
charlysisto 13y ago
Excellent point. For me the main use/luxury of money is not having to think about it.
nicklovescode 13y ago
I have an article in drafts named "Money is Time" about this subject. I've heard the idea of money being used to buy time much more in some circles than others, and I would like to push the idea that it's an option.
morgante 13y ago
Great point. I actually do deploy this technique fairly effectively, but solely as an "investment." Thus, I use money to buy time which I use to earn money. (For example, paying for my laundry to be done so that I have more time to work.) Obviously I still need to learn that increasing a random number in a bank balance doesn't actually affect my life at all.
sameer_sundresh 13y ago
It's pretty common to buy things for friends and family, in the hopes of improving the quality of their lives and the quality and amount of time you can spend with them (this doesn't always work out as planned). It's also pretty common to not just buy tangible objects directly for yourself, but to buy the sort of community you want to live in. Endowing museums, universities and hospitals, sponsoring the artists and politicians that suit your tastes (and not just your business interests), etc.

meric 13y ago

Value your friends more. Time with friends: priceless. (This applies only first X hours each week spent with each friend). After all, if you're deciding to spend your time with them even though you have such a high hourly rate, they must be very good friends. When you die, would you regret not spending enough time making money or not spending time with your friends more?

tehwalrus 13y ago

if my hourly rate were >$100, I'd be working <20 hours a week, because $2000 is enough to pay for (+ rent bills toys), and I'd have the rest of the time to do stuff I actually wanted to do.

morgante 13y ago
$2000 doesn't go that far in NYC. You can certainly live on it, but you're not saving much and you're not living a fantastic lifestyle.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  The principle is the same wherever you set the threshold - earn enough to live, in as few hours as possible, then live in the rest of the hours. As software engineers, we're paid enough to be able to do 4 or even 3 day weeks and chill out/hack for fun the rest of the time. When I escape my PhD (if I don't do a 24/7 startup) I'll be seeing how few hours I can work and still pay the bills.