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> This is a guy that ordered at least 2 known about hits/kills . In pallandt's America, people are guilty until proven innocent.

mikegogulski 13y ago
On his Hacker News and the website I created too, apparently.
pallandt 13y ago
I've deleted my original comment because I noticed a FAQ on the site with more info, apparently the owner of the site is not anonymous as I originally thought, so I didn't want to risk confusing other post readers. However, have you actually read the official criminal complaint and accompanying docs? There were transcripts of this guy's conversations where he literally was ordering a hit and mentioning he had ordered another one in the past. Start reading with page 21 if you haven't: http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalCompl...
- mikegogulski 13y ago
  I've read every word of every legal document I've found and had pointed out to me, and am probably closing in on having done so twice. I am not convinced that the Dread Pirate Roberts cited ordering killings is the same Dread Pirate Roberts of the libertarian vision and expansive writings to that end. Reading an essay on Ross's Facebook account, I'm convinced that if he was Dread Pirate Roberts, he wasn't the only person using that moniker. Part of the purpose of this documentation archive is to facilitate comparative linguistic analysis (stylometry) to demonstrate the Multiple Dread Pirates Roberts Theory (https://www.rossulbricht.org/multiple-dread-pirates-roberts-eileen-ormsby-inquires-before-and-after-the-bust/ https://www.rossulbricht.org/multiple-dread-pirates-roberts-...) “[The Dread Pirate] Roberts had grown so rich, he wanted to retire. He took me to his cabin and he told me his secret. ‘I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts’ he said. ‘My name is Ryan; I inherited the ship from the previous Dread Pirate Roberts, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Dread Pirate Roberts either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Roberts has been retired 15 years and living like a king in Patagonia. Then he explained the name was the important thing, for inspiring the necessary fear. You see, no one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Westley.” – Dread Pirate Roberts IV, The Princess Bride
  - samstave 13y ago
    Further, I seem to recall him saying explicitely that he was not the first user of the moniker and that he inherited the site... however - that is either untrue, or a false memory on my part. I believe this was from his reddit AMA?
    - drcode 13y ago
      I think it was never clear whether he was making a princess bride joke when he claimed there were multiple dprs.
  - georgemcbay 13y ago
    I have no opinion on how realistic all the talk about ordering "hits" is or if that was all a farce, but it seems likely to me if Ross Ulbricht wasn't the "real" DPR or if there were multiple active official DPRs, the "real" DPR or one of the other active ones would have posted an online message using DPR's known PGP signature by now, either to cast doubt on the arrest, or just to thumb their nose at the government.
    - betterunix 13y ago
      What makes you think they would want to cast doubt on his arrest? Let's put it this way: if there were two DPRs and one was arrested, and the arrested involved shutting down a Tor hidden service (i.e. the feds found the hidden service), would you really go around announcing that you were still walking free? Assuming that there is another DPR / SR admin / whatever out there, he or she is probably at a rifle range shooting every storage device with any SR material on it.
    - gwern 13y ago
      If I were the real DPR, my priorities at this point would be securing the commissions if at all possible, and hiding: taunting the feds with a signed message does not prove anything other than someone else had access to the key (Ross could still be the 'real' DPR), and it immediately tells the feds they left a loose end hanging. A hypothetical real DPR could have no way of knowing what incriminating evidence has been left on the server, be known by Ross (who might want to strike a bargain and maybe reduce his sentence by 1%), or available in Ross's belongings.
- bandushrew 13y ago
  what makes you think he is telling the truth? The basic virtue of his character?
  - pallandt 13y ago
    So by that logic he's somewhat less (potentially) guilty because there's only one (potentially real) transcript of him ordering a hit? Perhaps I'm just not understanding what you're attempting to say.
    - bandushrew 13y ago
      Agreed. I dont think you do.
      - pallandt 13y ago
        I don't want to offend you, so I'll assume you haven't spent a couple of hours attentively reading the court docs.
- aclevernickname 13y ago
  The prosecution is trying their hardest to make the case fit uniformly on Ulbrecht. One often omits facts and information that does not support a claim in court when making a criminal complaint. If we ruled only on the information provided by the prosecution, we would be a fascist society, guilty until proven innocent. Seeing as we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty, Perhaps you should not form your opinion based on the documents from only one side of the debate.
  - tjaerv 13y ago
    Indeed. And particularly so when the agency making the allegations has an established track record of lying in order to secure convictions. Witness: > The history of the FBI Lab hasn't been without controversy. Dr. Frederic Whitehurst, who joined the FBI in 1982 and served as a Supervisory Special Agent at the Lab from 1986 to 1998, blew the whistle on scientific misconduct at the Lab. In a subsequent investigation, it was found that evidence had been falsified, altered, or suppressed, or that FBI agents had testified falsely, in as many as 10,000 cases, resulting in many false convictions. More than a decade later, cases were still being overturned because of this massive fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Laboratory#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Laboratory#Controversy
tptacek 13y ago
I think I missed the part of what 'pallandt said where he was appointed judge and/or jury. I thought maybe he was just expressing his understanding of what happened.
- aclevernickname 13y ago
  oh my, I got tptacek's attention. You probably also missed the part where pallandt said he was american, too. because it also didn't happen. odd that you didn't focus on that part. When one is basing their understanding solely on documents from the prosecution, one is programming themselves with a bias. do you disagree?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Yes, I disagree.
    - aclevernickname 13y ago
      Excellent, so from now on, I can assume that you've only educated yourself halfway on any topic you agree/disagree with. Thanks for the clarity.

mikegogulski 13y ago

On his Hacker News and the website I created too, apparently.

pallandt 13y ago

I've deleted my original comment because I noticed a FAQ on the site with more info, apparently the owner of the site is not anonymous as I originally thought, so I didn't want to risk confusing other post readers. However, have you actually read the official criminal complaint and accompanying docs? There were transcripts of this guy's conversations where he literally was ordering a hit and mentioning he had ordered another one in the past. Start reading with page 21 if you haven't: http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalCompl...

mikegogulski 13y ago
I've read every word of every legal document I've found and had pointed out to me, and am probably closing in on having done so twice. I am not convinced that the Dread Pirate Roberts cited ordering killings is the same Dread Pirate Roberts of the libertarian vision and expansive writings to that end. Reading an essay on Ross's Facebook account, I'm convinced that if he was Dread Pirate Roberts, he wasn't the only person using that moniker. Part of the purpose of this documentation archive is to facilitate comparative linguistic analysis (stylometry) to demonstrate the Multiple Dread Pirates Roberts Theory (https://www.rossulbricht.org/multiple-dread-pirates-roberts-eileen-ormsby-inquires-before-and-after-the-bust/ https://www.rossulbricht.org/multiple-dread-pirates-roberts-...) “[The Dread Pirate] Roberts had grown so rich, he wanted to retire. He took me to his cabin and he told me his secret. ‘I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts’ he said. ‘My name is Ryan; I inherited the ship from the previous Dread Pirate Roberts, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Dread Pirate Roberts either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Roberts has been retired 15 years and living like a king in Patagonia. Then he explained the name was the important thing, for inspiring the necessary fear. You see, no one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Westley.” – Dread Pirate Roberts IV, The Princess Bride
- samstave 13y ago
  Further, I seem to recall him saying explicitely that he was not the first user of the moniker and that he inherited the site... however - that is either untrue, or a false memory on my part. I believe this was from his reddit AMA?
  - drcode 13y ago
    I think it was never clear whether he was making a princess bride joke when he claimed there were multiple dprs.
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  I have no opinion on how realistic all the talk about ordering "hits" is or if that was all a farce, but it seems likely to me if Ross Ulbricht wasn't the "real" DPR or if there were multiple active official DPRs, the "real" DPR or one of the other active ones would have posted an online message using DPR's known PGP signature by now, either to cast doubt on the arrest, or just to thumb their nose at the government.
  - betterunix 13y ago
    What makes you think they would want to cast doubt on his arrest? Let's put it this way: if there were two DPRs and one was arrested, and the arrested involved shutting down a Tor hidden service (i.e. the feds found the hidden service), would you really go around announcing that you were still walking free? Assuming that there is another DPR / SR admin / whatever out there, he or she is probably at a rifle range shooting every storage device with any SR material on it.
  - gwern 13y ago
    If I were the real DPR, my priorities at this point would be securing the commissions if at all possible, and hiding: taunting the feds with a signed message does not prove anything other than someone else had access to the key (Ross could still be the 'real' DPR), and it immediately tells the feds they left a loose end hanging. A hypothetical real DPR could have no way of knowing what incriminating evidence has been left on the server, be known by Ross (who might want to strike a bargain and maybe reduce his sentence by 1%), or available in Ross's belongings.
bandushrew 13y ago
what makes you think he is telling the truth? The basic virtue of his character?
- pallandt 13y ago
  So by that logic he's somewhat less (potentially) guilty because there's only one (potentially real) transcript of him ordering a hit? Perhaps I'm just not understanding what you're attempting to say.
  - bandushrew 13y ago
    Agreed. I dont think you do.
    - pallandt 13y ago
      I don't want to offend you, so I'll assume you haven't spent a couple of hours attentively reading the court docs.
aclevernickname 13y ago
The prosecution is trying their hardest to make the case fit uniformly on Ulbrecht. One often omits facts and information that does not support a claim in court when making a criminal complaint. If we ruled only on the information provided by the prosecution, we would be a fascist society, guilty until proven innocent. Seeing as we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty, Perhaps you should not form your opinion based on the documents from only one side of the debate.
- tjaerv 13y ago
  Indeed. And particularly so when the agency making the allegations has an established track record of lying in order to secure convictions. Witness: > The history of the FBI Lab hasn't been without controversy. Dr. Frederic Whitehurst, who joined the FBI in 1982 and served as a Supervisory Special Agent at the Lab from 1986 to 1998, blew the whistle on scientific misconduct at the Lab. In a subsequent investigation, it was found that evidence had been falsified, altered, or suppressed, or that FBI agents had testified falsely, in as many as 10,000 cases, resulting in many false convictions. More than a decade later, cases were still being overturned because of this massive fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Laboratory#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Laboratory#Controversy

tptacek 13y ago

I think I missed the part of what 'pallandt said where he was appointed judge and/or jury. I thought maybe he was just expressing his understanding of what happened.

aclevernickname 13y ago
oh my, I got tptacek's attention. You probably also missed the part where pallandt said he was american, too. because it also didn't happen. odd that you didn't focus on that part. When one is basing their understanding solely on documents from the prosecution, one is programming themselves with a bias. do you disagree?
- tptacek 13y ago
  Yes, I disagree.
  - aclevernickname 13y ago
    Excellent, so from now on, I can assume that you've only educated yourself halfway on any topic you agree/disagree with. Thanks for the clarity.