3 ms·

Regarding 4), as a thought experiment, I was wondering earlier how you'd authenticate the "trillion dollar coin." Hypothetically, it's possible to mint a one t

by Osmium 13y ago

Regarding 4), as a thought experiment, I was wondering earlier how you'd authenticate the "trillion dollar coin." Hypothetically, it's possible to mint a one trillion dollar coin to get around the debt ceiling crisis[1]. It's an absurd idea anyway, but what if that coin was made and then lost. Someone says they've found it, but how do we know they're not lying and have just made a forgery? Assuming that all details of the coin (its exact elemental composition, dimensions, etc.) are publicly known, I thought a possible solution would be to take an electron microscope and image the grain structure[2] of the coin in a specific region (e.g. the eye of the statue of liberty? if that were on the coin). Then hash that grain structure (in a similar way to how one "hashes" fingerprints), sign that hash with a very-private-key, and laser etch the signature onto the coin. Since it's not possible to recreate exact grain structures, it'd be impossible to forge your coin :) Alternatively, you could probably introduce some specific radioactive isotope to definitively age the coin, such the time since the coin was minted could be definitively measured, and any attempt at forgery revealed, though I'm not sure how to make that work in practice. There are probably other solutions too, though I can't think of any off hand. There must be things people do already to authenticate high-value "natural" objects such as gemstones? Like a laser-etched serial number? I don't know... An absurd scenario I know, but an interesting thought experiment. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion_dollar_coin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion_dollar_coin [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_structure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_structure

VLM 13y ago
insert hypothetical hack proof perfect RFID cryptocard into a cavity of the coin and solder it up except for a small hole for RF to pass thru? Unless someone knew the secret private key they'd be unable to replicate it the crypto code? Hey crypto card, if you actually know the correct private key, you can hash this HN article number "6511347" OH OK dude here is the signed hash "342351315215154" OK let me test that... holy cow it worked. The real hack would probably be a legal one to embed some kind of national treasure into the coin to make it seized by .gov, so anyone that walks up with one can have it taken away or is counterfeiting. My guess is a little spec of moon dust in a glass capsule that can't be privately owned. Or a little piece chipped off the Washington Monument.
- Osmium 13y ago
  >insert hypothetical hack proof perfect RFID cryptocard into a cavity of the coin and solder it up except for a small hole for RF to pass thru? Then, hypothetically, why not have the "coin" be the cryptocard in the first place? and forgo this whole lump of metal thing. Probably because it's not robust in the long term. What happens when the RFID cryptocard, eventually, fails? I like the moon dust idea though :)
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    Hypothetically, it's because the authorizing statute specifies that the coin must be platinum (or put another way, the statute only authorizes the minting of "platinum coins").
    - VLM 13y ago
      I haven't done much hi-temp thermocouple work... anyone know how easy it is to solder to platinum with "real" or lead-free solder? Electroplate a round cryptocard PCB and solder it together? I know solder sticks very well to gold after some unfortunate accidents (keep the solder away from the plated contacts when assembling, etc) so this would work for a "gold" coin.
      - Osmium 13y ago
        You can solder with platinum directly, in a manner of speaking (it won't be 100% platinum, and it also requires much higher temperatures than ordinary solder).
thaumasiotes 13y ago
Not really attacking the problem from the direction you indicated, but authenticating the coin is a non-problem. There's only one and everyone knows where it's supposed to be and who owns it. Carmen Sandiego stole the empire state building by carrying it away, but that doesn't work in the real world; the actual way to steal it is to forge change-of-ownership papers.

by Osmium 13y ago

VLM 13y ago

insert hypothetical hack proof perfect RFID cryptocard into a cavity of the coin and solder it up except for a small hole for RF to pass thru? Unless someone knew the secret private key they'd be unable to replicate it the crypto code? Hey crypto card, if you actually know the correct private key, you can hash this HN article number "6511347" OH OK dude here is the signed hash "342351315215154" OK let me test that... holy cow it worked. The real hack would probably be a legal one to embed some kind of national treasure into the coin to make it seized by .gov, so anyone that walks up with one can have it taken away or is counterfeiting. My guess is a little spec of moon dust in a glass capsule that can't be privately owned. Or a little piece chipped off the Washington Monument.

Osmium 13y ago
>insert hypothetical hack proof perfect RFID cryptocard into a cavity of the coin and solder it up except for a small hole for RF to pass thru? Then, hypothetically, why not have the "coin" be the cryptocard in the first place? and forgo this whole lump of metal thing. Probably because it's not robust in the long term. What happens when the RFID cryptocard, eventually, fails? I like the moon dust idea though :)
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  Hypothetically, it's because the authorizing statute specifies that the coin must be platinum (or put another way, the statute only authorizes the minting of "platinum coins").
  - VLM 13y ago
    I haven't done much hi-temp thermocouple work... anyone know how easy it is to solder to platinum with "real" or lead-free solder? Electroplate a round cryptocard PCB and solder it together? I know solder sticks very well to gold after some unfortunate accidents (keep the solder away from the plated contacts when assembling, etc) so this would work for a "gold" coin.
    - Osmium 13y ago
      You can solder with platinum directly, in a manner of speaking (it won't be 100% platinum, and it also requires much higher temperatures than ordinary solder).

thaumasiotes 13y ago

Not really attacking the problem from the direction you indicated, but authenticating the coin is a non-problem. There's only one and everyone knows where it's supposed to be and who owns it. Carmen Sandiego stole the empire state building by carrying it away, but that doesn't work in the real world; the actual way to steal it is to forge change-of-ownership papers.