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Just because it appears at first glance to be a tool to subvert the state doesn't mean you should dismiss the possibility of legitimate uses. Bitcoin, tor, bitt

Just because it appears at first glance to be a tool to subvert the state doesn't mean you should dismiss the possibility of legitimate uses. Bitcoin, tor, bittorrent, etc.? Come on.

pfraze 13y ago
"Appears?" It's called Silk Road 2.0 and described as a tool to run black markets without the possibility of state intervention.
- jsnk 13y ago
  Why are you so scared of black market? It's just another word for people trying to make transactions with one another voluntarily.
  - pfraze 13y ago
    We might just have a semantic disagreement, but Wikipedia supports the definition that I'm using [1]: > A black market or underground economy is the market in which goods or services are traded illegally. The key distinction of a black market trade is that the transaction itself is illegal. 1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market
    - baddox 13y ago
      Your two semantic proposals are completely compatible.
      - pfraze 13y ago
        They really shouldn't be.
- aric 13y ago
  Where oppression exists, resistance should exist.
  - krapp 13y ago
    But not every law is an oppression...
    - aric 13y ago
      Oppression is subjective. It's presumptuous to claim that "not every law is oppressive." What might be unnoticeable to many people could become oppressive to you. Ultimately, the subjective ethics and conscience of an individual is more valid than any arbitrary system into which that person is thrown, on an individual basis. In other terms, that which is "worth fighting for" -- worth resistance to oppression -- is, as always, relative and subjective. Fortunately, quite a lot of people feel that it's extremely oppressive to inflict restrictions, caging, and great violence upon nonviolent, consenting people. Oppression comes in many forms. Given this thread, I'll use drugs as the context. A single lone person who wants to grow and use drugs is still oppressed (according to my ethical framework) even if the entirety of all other people on Earth, all 7+ billion, summarily and vehemently want to violently restrict that person from doing so.
      - krapp 13y ago
        >Fortunately, quite a lot of people feel that it's extremely oppressive to inflict restrictions, caging, and great violence upon nonviolent, consenting people. I would agree with you here. However, I wouldn't necessarily agree that all laws are necessarily oppressive or, if they must be oppressive by your terms, need to be resisted. After all, there are cases of theft, vandalism, murder, rape, fraud, conspiracy, etc - all of which would require 'oppression' through the force of law for the good of the community. I have no problem with your lone person who wants to use drugs and is harming no one - but laws in general presume consequences for violating norms within a society. If on the other hand, that lone user has to commit violent acts or their use poses a danger to others, then in my opinion their right to personal liberty has to be limited.

Just because it appears at first glance to be a tool to subvert the state doesn't mean you should dismiss the possibility of legitimate uses. Bitcoin, tor, bittorrent, etc.? Come on.

pfraze 13y ago

"Appears?" It's called Silk Road 2.0 and described as a tool to run black markets without the possibility of state intervention.

jsnk 13y ago
Why are you so scared of black market? It's just another word for people trying to make transactions with one another voluntarily.
- pfraze 13y ago
  We might just have a semantic disagreement, but Wikipedia supports the definition that I'm using [1]: > A black market or underground economy is the market in which goods or services are traded illegally. The key distinction of a black market trade is that the transaction itself is illegal. 1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market
  - baddox 13y ago
    Your two semantic proposals are completely compatible.
    - pfraze 13y ago
      They really shouldn't be.
aric 13y ago
Where oppression exists, resistance should exist.
- krapp 13y ago
  But not every law is an oppression...
  - aric 13y ago
    Oppression is subjective. It's presumptuous to claim that "not every law is oppressive." What might be unnoticeable to many people could become oppressive to you. Ultimately, the subjective ethics and conscience of an individual is more valid than any arbitrary system into which that person is thrown, on an individual basis. In other terms, that which is "worth fighting for" -- worth resistance to oppression -- is, as always, relative and subjective. Fortunately, quite a lot of people feel that it's extremely oppressive to inflict restrictions, caging, and great violence upon nonviolent, consenting people. Oppression comes in many forms. Given this thread, I'll use drugs as the context. A single lone person who wants to grow and use drugs is still oppressed (according to my ethical framework) even if the entirety of all other people on Earth, all 7+ billion, summarily and vehemently want to violently restrict that person from doing so.
    - krapp 13y ago
      >Fortunately, quite a lot of people feel that it's extremely oppressive to inflict restrictions, caging, and great violence upon nonviolent, consenting people. I would agree with you here. However, I wouldn't necessarily agree that all laws are necessarily oppressive or, if they must be oppressive by your terms, need to be resisted. After all, there are cases of theft, vandalism, murder, rape, fraud, conspiracy, etc - all of which would require 'oppression' through the force of law for the good of the community. I have no problem with your lone person who wants to use drugs and is harming no one - but laws in general presume consequences for violating norms within a society. If on the other hand, that lone user has to commit violent acts or their use poses a danger to others, then in my opinion their right to personal liberty has to be limited.