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> No, because Tor is a tool for anonymizing Web traffic, and it's not against the law to use the Web anonymously. Should we stop promoting Tor when this inevit

by VMG 13y ago

> No, because Tor is a tool for anonymizing Web traffic, and it's not against the law to use the Web anonymously. Should we stop promoting Tor when this inevitably becomes illegal?

pfraze 13y ago
Are you saying the right to share information without surveillance is on the same footing as the right to sell drugs? And even then, is it wise to address your disagreement with a law by creating a GitHub repo that details your plan to break it? I'm not advocating compliance here. I'm just challenging this idea that we can beat the state through technical prowess, or that we should do it without being pressed into extraordinary circumstances. It's not just unwise, it's (regarding the "technical prowess") flat incorrect.
- agscala 13y ago
  Why should the right to share information be on a different level than selling drugs? You can sell (share) powerful information. You can share information that would cause far, far more damage than any drugs will.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Drugs are a canary in the coal mine. If you lack the ability to share drugs over a medium without surveillance, then you know that you lack the ability to share information over a medium without surveillance. If you can't say "mail me three marijuanas please" without somebody listening in, then you can't say anything without somebody listening in. There is no such thing as a system that provides privacy only for legal activities. Therefore if you want to fight for the freedom and ability to share information without surveillance, then you must design systems that can, incidentally or otherwise, be used to share drugs (and you must fight attempts to surveil existing systems.)
  - pfraze 13y ago
    Yeah, stop volunteering to be a canary.
  - pogue 13y ago
    Here here!
saraid216 13y ago
> Should we stop promoting Tor when this inevitably becomes illegal? It depends. Is your goal to never work with the state, or do you intend to reconcile with it at some point? If you never intend to obey laws, then yes. You should stop promoting Tor if Tor becomes illegal. If you intend to get the law changed back in your favor, then you should continue promoting Tor if Tor becomes illegal. Up to you.
- VMG 13y ago
  I intend to be moral. This can coincide with obeying the law and with breaking it.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    Then figure out whether promoting Tor is moral and do it. Don't ask someone else for your morals.
    - VMG 13y ago
      I'm just pointing out the inherent contradictions in claiming that black markets are evil.

by VMG 13y ago

> No, because Tor is a tool for anonymizing Web traffic, and it's not against the law to use the Web anonymously. Should we stop promoting Tor when this inevitably becomes illegal?

pfraze 13y ago

Are you saying the right to share information without surveillance is on the same footing as the right to sell drugs? And even then, is it wise to address your disagreement with a law by creating a GitHub repo that details your plan to break it? I'm not advocating compliance here. I'm just challenging this idea that we can beat the state through technical prowess, or that we should do it without being pressed into extraordinary circumstances. It's not just unwise, it's (regarding the "technical prowess") flat incorrect.

agscala 13y ago
Why should the right to share information be on a different level than selling drugs? You can sell (share) powerful information. You can share information that would cause far, far more damage than any drugs will.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jlgreco 13y ago
Drugs are a canary in the coal mine. If you lack the ability to share drugs over a medium without surveillance, then you know that you lack the ability to share information over a medium without surveillance. If you can't say "mail me three marijuanas please" without somebody listening in, then you can't say anything without somebody listening in. There is no such thing as a system that provides privacy only for legal activities. Therefore if you want to fight for the freedom and ability to share information without surveillance, then you must design systems that can, incidentally or otherwise, be used to share drugs (and you must fight attempts to surveil existing systems.)
- pfraze 13y ago
  Yeah, stop volunteering to be a canary.
- pogue 13y ago
  Here here!

saraid216 13y ago

> Should we stop promoting Tor when this inevitably becomes illegal? It depends. Is your goal to never work with the state, or do you intend to reconcile with it at some point? If you never intend to obey laws, then yes. You should stop promoting Tor if Tor becomes illegal. If you intend to get the law changed back in your favor, then you should continue promoting Tor if Tor becomes illegal. Up to you.

VMG 13y ago
I intend to be moral. This can coincide with obeying the law and with breaking it.
- saraid216 13y ago
  Then figure out whether promoting Tor is moral and do it. Don't ask someone else for your morals.
  - VMG 13y ago
    I'm just pointing out the inherent contradictions in claiming that black markets are evil.