4 ms·

I like your point#4. We should be able to phone a central server to check if that number is actually the hash of an hidden number in the bill. But that would a

I like your point#4. We should be able to phone a central server to check if that number is actually the hash of an hidden number in the bill. But that would actually defeat point #8: you can print out bills but they won't be verified by the server at the gubment. And I like the QR code too.

VLM 13y ago
A hidden number would defeat the purpose, I'm thinking of something like the (sort of) well known social security death index, where if you try to get credit using a known dead psuedorandom serial number, the bank gets all wound up, and you get lots of attention from cops. So try to buy a soda with a known shredded $1, the vending machine doesn't accept it, you'll have a strange conversation at the bank. Of course we're rapidly nearing the point where a smartphone could just hold the numbers in its memory, which is a strange form of digital cash but it could kinda work.
vacri 13y ago
Why not just go with polymer bills, which are not only much harder to counterfeit, but last longer as well? There's heaps of precedent at this stage.
- VLM 13y ago
  Local slang for credit card has occasionally been "plastic" so plastic money would result in infinite bad jokes about already having plastic debit/credit cards? The old "light a bill on fire and then light your cigar on fire with the bill" thing isn't going to work well as well anymore. Another local peculiarity is the locals (more or less correctly) don't trust the local plastics industries so we'd get all kinds of push back because the .gov is only trying to switch to plastic to get more BPA in our diet to control our minds and stuff. TSA agents can't figure out how to make a deadly weapon out of a paper dollar bill, but if they figure out how to ban cash from flights, its going to be a mess. Presumably they'd be smart enough to use self-fire-extinguishing plastic. Despite the fact there's no way you'd confuse C4 with regular plastic, I guarantee you'll have an infinite number of stupid hollywood movie plots about plastic explosive counterfeit bills taking down airliners because they hate our freedumb or something equally idiotic yet politically powerful. My examples above sound pretty dumb, because they are, yet they're also serious, which is sad. So thats why we're stuck with paper.
  - vacri 13y ago
    You get all this fearmongering every time there's a currency change, but the people who do it are very much a vocal minority; a 'paper tiger' might be the apt term here :) Usually people are really curious about the new format and pass it around to be seen. There's some cachet in being one of the first to get a new -foo-. In hindsight, the only real currency change criticism in Australia that had substance was a coin change. We replaced our $1 and $2 notes with a heavy 'gold' coin, and there was a criticism from blind lobby groups that these coins didn't 'ring' when you dropped them. They still make a particular sound, but it's much less obvious if you're not looking for it. Every other criticism I've seen, while sounding momentous before the change, dies pretty quickly after introduction. As an aside, I was buying a train ticket in LA in 2009. Handing over a $50 note, the cashier marked it with a felt-tip pen. At this stage, I'd been using polymer notes for nearly 20 years, so I was puzzled and asked what it was for. She explained the marker was to test for counterfeit notes - and I had to stop myself from inadvertently muttering 'oh, how quaint!'. The pro-to-con ratio for polymer notes is just so strong, it's hard to see how a government can seriously reject it... it genuinely seems backwards. As another aside, before polymer notes were brought in here, we had the dumbest bank note possible. The Australian paper $100 note was black and white with subtle colour shading. You could (coarsely) counterfeit it with a photocopier - and you'd occasionally hear stories of people giving such a crumpled-up note to a sleep-deprived 7-11 employee and walking away with nearly $100 change...
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      I watched a clerk test a $10 this afternoon.
    - sbierwagen 13y ago
      The "marker" test checks for starch, which wood pulp paper has, but currency rag pulp paper doesn't. But it's security theater: minimally competent counterfeiters would just buy $5 worth of rag pulp resume paper from office depot...
- nwh 13y ago
  They smell nicer too, speaking from a constant user from Australia. Just have to be careful not to iron them, otherwise they shrink to a tiny tiny postage stamp and you have to embarrassingly take it to the bank to have it replaced.
- greeneggs 13y ago
  I don't know that polymer bills last any longer. Canada's old dollar bills used to last ~1 year [1], and polymer bills are said to last two to three times longer [2]. (I can't find a more precise estimate.) But US dollar bills are made of linen and last much longer, 56 months [3]. The high durability of US "paper" money is another reason that switching low denominations to coins makes no sense in the US. [1] http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2012/04/pm-loonie-report.pdf http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2012/04/pm-loonie-report.pd... (page 6) [2] http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/polymer-to-replace-cotton-in-canadian-currency-notes/7537 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/polymer-to-replace-cott... [3] http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-307 http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-307

VLM 13y ago

A hidden number would defeat the purpose, I'm thinking of something like the (sort of) well known social security death index, where if you try to get credit using a known dead psuedorandom serial number, the bank gets all wound up, and you get lots of attention from cops. So try to buy a soda with a known shredded $1, the vending machine doesn't accept it, you'll have a strange conversation at the bank. Of course we're rapidly nearing the point where a smartphone could just hold the numbers in its memory, which is a strange form of digital cash but it could kinda work.

vacri 13y ago

Why not just go with polymer bills, which are not only much harder to counterfeit, but last longer as well? There's heaps of precedent at this stage.

VLM 13y ago
Local slang for credit card has occasionally been "plastic" so plastic money would result in infinite bad jokes about already having plastic debit/credit cards? The old "light a bill on fire and then light your cigar on fire with the bill" thing isn't going to work well as well anymore. Another local peculiarity is the locals (more or less correctly) don't trust the local plastics industries so we'd get all kinds of push back because the .gov is only trying to switch to plastic to get more BPA in our diet to control our minds and stuff. TSA agents can't figure out how to make a deadly weapon out of a paper dollar bill, but if they figure out how to ban cash from flights, its going to be a mess. Presumably they'd be smart enough to use self-fire-extinguishing plastic. Despite the fact there's no way you'd confuse C4 with regular plastic, I guarantee you'll have an infinite number of stupid hollywood movie plots about plastic explosive counterfeit bills taking down airliners because they hate our freedumb or something equally idiotic yet politically powerful. My examples above sound pretty dumb, because they are, yet they're also serious, which is sad. So thats why we're stuck with paper.
- vacri 13y ago
  You get all this fearmongering every time there's a currency change, but the people who do it are very much a vocal minority; a 'paper tiger' might be the apt term here :) Usually people are really curious about the new format and pass it around to be seen. There's some cachet in being one of the first to get a new -foo-. In hindsight, the only real currency change criticism in Australia that had substance was a coin change. We replaced our $1 and $2 notes with a heavy 'gold' coin, and there was a criticism from blind lobby groups that these coins didn't 'ring' when you dropped them. They still make a particular sound, but it's much less obvious if you're not looking for it. Every other criticism I've seen, while sounding momentous before the change, dies pretty quickly after introduction. As an aside, I was buying a train ticket in LA in 2009. Handing over a $50 note, the cashier marked it with a felt-tip pen. At this stage, I'd been using polymer notes for nearly 20 years, so I was puzzled and asked what it was for. She explained the marker was to test for counterfeit notes - and I had to stop myself from inadvertently muttering 'oh, how quaint!'. The pro-to-con ratio for polymer notes is just so strong, it's hard to see how a government can seriously reject it... it genuinely seems backwards. As another aside, before polymer notes were brought in here, we had the dumbest bank note possible. The Australian paper $100 note was black and white with subtle colour shading. You could (coarsely) counterfeit it with a photocopier - and you'd occasionally hear stories of people giving such a crumpled-up note to a sleep-deprived 7-11 employee and walking away with nearly $100 change...
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    I watched a clerk test a $10 this afternoon.
  - sbierwagen 13y ago
    The "marker" test checks for starch, which wood pulp paper has, but currency rag pulp paper doesn't. But it's security theater: minimally competent counterfeiters would just buy $5 worth of rag pulp resume paper from office depot...
nwh 13y ago
They smell nicer too, speaking from a constant user from Australia. Just have to be careful not to iron them, otherwise they shrink to a tiny tiny postage stamp and you have to embarrassingly take it to the bank to have it replaced.
greeneggs 13y ago
I don't know that polymer bills last any longer. Canada's old dollar bills used to last ~1 year [1], and polymer bills are said to last two to three times longer [2]. (I can't find a more precise estimate.) But US dollar bills are made of linen and last much longer, 56 months [3]. The high durability of US "paper" money is another reason that switching low denominations to coins makes no sense in the US. [1] http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2012/04/pm-loonie-report.pdf http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2012/04/pm-loonie-report.pd... (page 6) [2] http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/polymer-to-replace-cotton-in-canadian-currency-notes/7537 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/polymer-to-replace-cott... [3] http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-307 http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-307