6 ms·

This has problems and isn't going anywhere for long: - it makes GitHub a target - it makes contributors into targets First, Git (although DVCS) needs to be l

by ballard 13y ago

This has problems and isn't going anywhere for long: - it makes GitHub a target - it makes contributors into targets First, Git (although DVCS) needs to be located in a non-extradition country where a SEAL team cannot just break in and steal dev servers. This sounds like it would require tor also. Second, all contributors need perfect anonymity hygiene. Anyone that commits publicly is a liability. Use a new pseudonym just for this project, keep issues and discussion to information and technical matters strictly.

rmc 13y ago
First, Git (although DVCS) needs to be located in a non-extradition country non-extradition country to where? Non-extradiction country to the USA? That's very America-centric. Any place you can host it, will have local courts, local police and local judges. You can't find a country that, effectively, has no laws you have to obey.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ballard 13y ago
  Whine about hating America somewhere else, you have nothing original to add. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    A claim that extradition to America isn't the only way that various crimes in the world are punished is not "hating America," unless you're dumb.
    - ballard 13y ago
      Are you really so poorly mannered as to chime in and start throwing nasty names around? That genius you replied to takes one point to make a political statement, not contribute anything to the conversation and then slips into to the gutter. If it's not popular to stand up for yourself being assaulted, then I don't really care. If you aren't, you're still completely wrong. Russia, America or any nationstate that is made aware of something can seize whatever it wants whenever it wants and wherever it wants. That's why any controversial app must be distributed, fault resilient for both development AND production. Centralized will never work, even with perfect security hygiene. It's a good thing that Git has a full copy, because a single dev server seizure would be annoying but not fatal. Do you have any other flaws to point out that pertain to my original comment?
      - Radim 13y ago
        That genius you replied to takes one point to make a political statement, not contribute anything to the conversation and then slips into to the gutter. He replied to you.
joyeuse6701 13y ago
I wonder if you could pool money to have spacex or some other company launch a satellite/set of servers into orbit as opposed to some country somewhere. That'd be pretty expensive for them to take (physically) out of service then!
- jaredstenquist 13y ago
  The US government could easily destroy said satellite.
  - ballard 13y ago
    Several countries have ASATs. There are probably other ways to destroy/disable satellites. How much would it cost?
- pavel_lishin 13y ago
  Maybe, but probably not as expensive as you launching it in the first place as a percentage of money involved. I'd bet there are a few old birds up there that are still under control, but not serving any particular purpose. Steer it into a collision course, and bam, your server just became a cloud of garbage orbiting the Earth. On the other hand, that would seriously piss off the rest of the international community, especially if the two satellites were high enough to clutter up existing satellite traffic.
pogue 13y ago
This is absurd. We have to stop trying to run from our own government, we've run out of places to go. I've been hearing arguments for years that we need to place anything that's even a theory of committing an illegal act on some micronation of Sealand or, like PirateBay, float drones in the sky. It's going to get to the point where theres no where we're going to end up hosting Reddit, et al., on the Moon.
- krapp 13y ago
  Don't do Sealand... that never ends well.
- JackFr 13y ago
  If you're intent is to create a facility, whose express purpose is to break the law, albeit laws you may not agree with, I think you're going to be on the run for a long time.
  - pogue 13y ago
    Obviously that's correct. But, my point being is that the law is wrong and we should attempt to challenge government instead of simply trying to evade it over and over.
    - randallsquared 13y ago
      If you have a plan that seems workable, there are hundreds of thousands of people willing to join you. If you don't, then jurisdictional arbitrage will continue to be the order of the day.
      - pogue 13y ago
        I've been thinking a lot about this lately and I can't come up with a clear and fully appropriate medium to actually challenge government overreach in a significant way. It seems to me, viewing history as an example, it used to be possible to legitimately petition the government by means of demonstrations, protests, contacting legislators, etc. Now that's been completely replaced with lawsuits. Only by one party with significant means and resourcing sueing the other and waiting a long time to reach the Supreme Court do things get accomplished. As this has to do with the drug war, however, I think things are slowly changing. If the Prohibition of alcohol can be any guide it will take a large enough public outcry along with voting people into office that share your point of view. All that takes time, money, and at least some way to sway the public (generally meaning control in some kind of large media company that the public believes/trusts). The only way to get started is for people to get together and say they want to do it and start doing it. Apathy and complaining about it goes nowhere. https://twitter.com/pogue25 https://twitter.com/pogue25 if anyone wants to get started :)
warfangle 13y ago
>steal dev servers Just hook up emagnets in the doorframes. Wipe the servers if they're removed from their environ.
- krapp 13y ago
  I think it takes a lot more effort than that to thoroughly wipe a drive. Though my only expertise in this regard is having to use a degausser on magnetic tapes.
Rexxx 13y ago
What a great idea for a hidden service

by ballard 13y ago

rmc 13y ago

First, Git (although DVCS) needs to be located in a non-extradition country non-extradition country to where? Non-extradiction country to the USA? That's very America-centric. Any place you can host it, will have local courts, local police and local judges. You can't find a country that, effectively, has no laws you have to obey.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ballard 13y ago
Whine about hating America somewhere else, you have nothing original to add. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- pessimizer 13y ago
  A claim that extradition to America isn't the only way that various crimes in the world are punished is not "hating America," unless you're dumb.
  - ballard 13y ago
    Are you really so poorly mannered as to chime in and start throwing nasty names around? That genius you replied to takes one point to make a political statement, not contribute anything to the conversation and then slips into to the gutter. If it's not popular to stand up for yourself being assaulted, then I don't really care. If you aren't, you're still completely wrong. Russia, America or any nationstate that is made aware of something can seize whatever it wants whenever it wants and wherever it wants. That's why any controversial app must be distributed, fault resilient for both development AND production. Centralized will never work, even with perfect security hygiene. It's a good thing that Git has a full copy, because a single dev server seizure would be annoying but not fatal. Do you have any other flaws to point out that pertain to my original comment?
    - Radim 13y ago
      That genius you replied to takes one point to make a political statement, not contribute anything to the conversation and then slips into to the gutter. He replied to you.

joyeuse6701 13y ago

I wonder if you could pool money to have spacex or some other company launch a satellite/set of servers into orbit as opposed to some country somewhere. That'd be pretty expensive for them to take (physically) out of service then!

jaredstenquist 13y ago
The US government could easily destroy said satellite.
- ballard 13y ago
  Several countries have ASATs. There are probably other ways to destroy/disable satellites. How much would it cost?
pavel_lishin 13y ago
Maybe, but probably not as expensive as you launching it in the first place as a percentage of money involved. I'd bet there are a few old birds up there that are still under control, but not serving any particular purpose. Steer it into a collision course, and bam, your server just became a cloud of garbage orbiting the Earth. On the other hand, that would seriously piss off the rest of the international community, especially if the two satellites were high enough to clutter up existing satellite traffic.

pogue 13y ago

This is absurd. We have to stop trying to run from our own government, we've run out of places to go. I've been hearing arguments for years that we need to place anything that's even a theory of committing an illegal act on some micronation of Sealand or, like PirateBay, float drones in the sky. It's going to get to the point where theres no where we're going to end up hosting Reddit, et al., on the Moon.

krapp 13y ago
Don't do Sealand... that never ends well.
JackFr 13y ago
If you're intent is to create a facility, whose express purpose is to break the law, albeit laws you may not agree with, I think you're going to be on the run for a long time.
- pogue 13y ago
  Obviously that's correct. But, my point being is that the law is wrong and we should attempt to challenge government instead of simply trying to evade it over and over.
  - randallsquared 13y ago
    If you have a plan that seems workable, there are hundreds of thousands of people willing to join you. If you don't, then jurisdictional arbitrage will continue to be the order of the day.
    - pogue 13y ago
      I've been thinking a lot about this lately and I can't come up with a clear and fully appropriate medium to actually challenge government overreach in a significant way. It seems to me, viewing history as an example, it used to be possible to legitimately petition the government by means of demonstrations, protests, contacting legislators, etc. Now that's been completely replaced with lawsuits. Only by one party with significant means and resourcing sueing the other and waiting a long time to reach the Supreme Court do things get accomplished. As this has to do with the drug war, however, I think things are slowly changing. If the Prohibition of alcohol can be any guide it will take a large enough public outcry along with voting people into office that share your point of view. All that takes time, money, and at least some way to sway the public (generally meaning control in some kind of large media company that the public believes/trusts). The only way to get started is for people to get together and say they want to do it and start doing it. Apathy and complaining about it goes nowhere. https://twitter.com/pogue25 https://twitter.com/pogue25 if anyone wants to get started :)

warfangle 13y ago

>steal dev servers Just hook up emagnets in the doorframes. Wipe the servers if they're removed from their environ.

krapp 13y ago
I think it takes a lot more effort than that to thoroughly wipe a drive. Though my only expertise in this regard is having to use a degausser on magnetic tapes.

Rexxx 13y ago

What a great idea for a hidden service